User talk:Cliffracerslayer

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Forgotten Realms Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Talk:Deva page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Fw190a8 (Talk) 20:58, 9 October 2009

Verbeeg edits
Hi - with regard to these edits to the verbeeg article, do you have a source for the alignment of verbeegs? If not I will need to revert the changes. Fw190a8 (talk &middot; contr) 22:27, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Did the original person have such a source? --Cliffracerslayer 11:36, October 12, 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe the original person had a source, which in itself is unfortunate. The wiki still needs sources for things like this, and I am committed to encouraging the addition of verifiable, reliable information. Fw190a8 (talk &middot; contr) 19:34, October 12, 2009 (UTC)

I don't have the book on giants. I can't go get myself every single D&D book in existance just so I can read through sources although maybe I would do well to do so, cost be damned. The article says citation needed on the sentance after the bit where it says that they are usually Neutral Evil.

The page has a rather sparse edit history really. The original edit explains a lot. The Verbeeg were in the original article of Chaotic Neutral Alignment alignment on the Alignment grid and then MJBurrage changed the alignment table to Neutral Evil. However I think the Verbeeg original article did say they were Neutral Evil just the Alignment grid was in my opinion more correct.

From the rather thin description of Verbeeg society the conclusion I arrive at is that Verbeeg just don't have much of a society but that in so far as they do it is rather unremarkable as in the statement.

'''The treacherous nature of verbeegs makes this the primary skill where the ordning is concerned. To advance in ranks, a verbeeg must discredit or defeat a superior, by violence or any other means.[2]'''

What is supposed to be so remarkable about the above? It bears a strong resemblance to the societies vast majority of societies, including the Lawful Good one's. There just isn't enough room at the top for everyone.

The most notable thing about Verbeegs is the following.

Verbeegs have no concept of ownership and believe that everything is owned by everyone, so they take whatever they want without pause to think about it.[2]

If they genuinely believe that everything is owned by everyone, then presumably they presumably wouldn't object if anyone else helped themselves to "their" things because as far as they are concerned they don't have any things anyway.

The Verbeeg essentially are described as completely lawless. The strongest Verbeeg apparantly 'rules' but since the Verbeeg have no concept of property and the concept of the inherant 'treachery' of Verbeeg seems to be related to concepts of feudal loyalty which to the horror of the author the Verbeeg do not share. Since it does explicitly mention 'discredit' rather than 'murder' and 'by any other means' after violence, this suggests that there is a strong element of democracy to the whole process. They appear to throw out and replace their leaders as they see fit but just without the organisation of a formal election.

In other words they are most definately almost perfectly Chaoticly aligned, since their given and sourced description suggests that strongly. They lack the selective and hypocritical loyalty to 'particular' rules based upon self-interest that Neutral Evil beings have.

Their ability to enlist the aid of both the Chaotic Good Voadkyn and the Neutral Evil Formorian in their war against the Frost Giants suggests a Neutral moral alignment but the uncited 'fact' that are often found leading groups of hill giants and ogres suggests it is reasonable to give them a Chaotic Evil alignment also. --Cliffracerslayer 19:50, October 13, 2009 (UTC)