Talk:Spellplague

4th Ed. is crap
Once again we see "perfectly good ideas tossed" for marketing's sake. In order to sell the "shlock" that is D&D 4.0 (Dungeon & Dragons for Dummies) WOC will go to all lengths including ditching a realm into the trash. I have read so many books on the Realms and have come to love their heroes and gods. THanks WOC for f_ing it all in your excuse to peddle 4.0 which in Gary Gyax's opinion was crap. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SieteRayos (talk • contribs) 18:18, October 27, 2008 (UTC)


 * The wiki isn't a forum nor a place for the discussion on the merits (or lack thereof depending on your opinion) of the Spellplague. Don't post anything in the talk page unless you actually have an issue or suggestion relevant to the article in a constructive fashion.
 * Thank you. Niirfa-sa 18:42, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Forgive me if I mistook the TALK section for open discussion. Usually in Wikis you use talk to discuss and or criticize. Are you going to censor peoples opinions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SieteRayos (talk • contribs) 15:05, October 28, 2008 (UTC)


 * The TALK section (as you say) is for talk about the article and suggestions for how to make it better. It is not for trolling. If you want to do that, go to WOTC's forums, ENWorld, or many of the other sites which are best suited for such discussions.Niirfa-sa 17:16, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, please try to keep discussion relevent to the article it corresponds to. We're not censoring you in any way, just trying not to fill up our talk pages with meaningless debate over a related, but irrelevant topic of debate. And by the by, Gary Gygax thought everything after 2nd edition was crap. hashtalk 22:32, 30 October 2008 (GMT)


 * Not to add onto anything, but Gygax actually thought everything after 1st edition AD&D was crap. But yes, that's the point I was trying to get across. Niirfa-sa 23:13, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Listen since I have been playing AD&D since highschool and that was 1981. I thought maybe I would add my opinion about how Realms has changed for the worse. Since you choose to call that trolling you can go back to adding things from the manuals verbetim. You can run your wiki the way you want. Just erase what I said so there will be no opposition to your rules. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SieteRayos (talk • contribs) 15:34, October 31, 2008 (UTC)


 * Heh, this guy is funny. He'd be so easy to wind up in RL. I love people like that. Full of poorly spelled 'righteous indignation'. Seriously though, this article is still too short, needs to be expanded, I mean, come on, this is the biggest Realms shaker since the ToT and it's barely 2 paragraphs. hashtalk 15:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll see what I can do to lengthen the article. I happen to have all the material about it on me. Niirfa-sa 19:16, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Must be great to be so superior as to attack the arguer as opposed to the argument. I will make sure my spelling is up to par. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SieteRayos (talk • contribs) 15:52, October 31, 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, not only was Toril altered, but so was the entire cosmology. Abeir and Toril trading landmasses, the World Tree formation of the celestial planes destroyed, causing deities’ realms to enter the Astral Plane, the elemental planes merging into the Elemental Chaos, the Feywild reappearing, the Far Realm (Wikia:c:Annex:Far Realm) introduced… ➳ Quin 22:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * SieteRayos, you can discuss your opinions about the fourth edition changes to the Forgotten Realms here. ➳ Quin 22:29, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your assistance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SieteRayos (talk • contribs) 16:12, November 3, 2008 (UTC)


 * Have to agree that DND 4th ed was a sale out by hasbro, and that they are on there way to wreak another campaign setting. Have moved on to the Pathfinder Game setting which is like 3.75 rules by the publisher that use to do Dragon Magazine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.125.193.65 (talk • contribs) 22:18, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

After the Spellplague
Crapt! I only know and own the books befor the Time of Troubles! I mssed a lot. I need to get up to date, and expanding this article could. I may not know much about recent Forgotten Raelams history, but I would liketo help. Couls someone tell what books pertain the Spellplague. I will buy them, read them, and help expsand this page thank you! Also, when I lived in Leominster, I lived two block down the street from R A Salvatore's house. Sadly, I was not a fanof Forgotten Realms then. Also, with all the stuff happeneing due to the Spellplague, could some dead gods come back? Will the Primordials renew their age old war with the Gods of Faerûn? What happened to Elmonster? Will the elemntals wage war on the citizens of the abyss? Is Mystra truly dead, or did some of her essence survive?--8thGhazneth 18:13, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The Empyrean Odyssey deals with how the Spellplague came to be. The Abolethic Sovereignty deals with the emergence of the ancient aboleths from near the core of the planet as a result of the Spellplague. The Wilds is a series independent novels that take place in lands deeply affected by the Spellplague. Waterdeep is a series of independent novels that take place in Waterdeep in 1479 DR. ➳ Quin 18:47, September 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * As for Elminster, he became very depressed and withdrawn and is now taken care of by Alassra Silverhand (the Simbul). He and Alassra were the only Chosen of Mystra to survive the Spellplague. ➳ Quin 18:51, September 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * I do believe there was another chosen that survived. Storm Silverhand, Alassra's sister was alive in the book, "Elminster Must Die: The Sage of Shadowdale". It was released August 3, 2010.  I too have moved into the Pathfinder Game setting.  4th ed was quite terrible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.33.255.118 (talk • contribs) 00:12, September 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just curious if the spellplague actually ends in 1479DR as stated in R.A. Salvatore's The Companions or was this a temporary "hiccup"? Have there been any other mentions of this?  I know they are cleaning house so to speak with the Sundering.Kramer0283 (talk) 23:33, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

I agree 4th edition sucks,i will continue to play old school D&D.Basically pathfinder rules in the forgotten realms my player like it.As for mystra being dead not in my campaign I'm running the realms in the year 1376 year of the bent blade I believe.in closing it's your campaign do what you want! actually mask has gained or will be gaining intrigue back form cyrics portfolio by mortally wounding him and stealing it back!! Take care The forgotten realms will survive don't buy there crap and what does Ed greenwood think of this they ruined a great campaign setting!!!

Spellplague article
I was reading the article on the spellplague and noticed that it completely fails to mention that the damage to the weave was mitigated somewhat by the god Deneir and that one of the effects of the spellplague was to transform the red dragon Hepheastus into The Ghost King by fusing him with the remains of Crenshinibon the crystal shard. All of which is contained in R.A. Salvatore's book The Ghost King (3rd in the Transitions series). --80.42.112.195 16:57, October 9, 2013 (UTC)DrZed


 * You sound like an expert to me, since, you know, you've actually read the book. :) So please make an account and add your findings to improve this article. Please paraphrase and not plagiarize, and write in past tense so that future generations of editors do not have to rewrite your work. You too can become immortal by becoming a chronicler of the Forgotten Realms! (Tax, tag, and title not included. Your milage may vary.) &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 22:04, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

5th Edition Revisions?
As the Forgotten Realms is being retconned for 5e (either the clock being turned back or all of the events of and after the Spellplague being erased, depending on which development leak you hear), will this article and all entries with Spellplague timelines be modified? - Breandán--70.140.115.150 06:56, December 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * Absolutely not. There are people who like 4th edition and have invested more than time and money into it for their campaigns. We will continue to document all editions and treat them as equally as possible. Don't believe the rumors. The Sundering might bring things closer to previous editions, but I'll wager it does so in a timeline-safe way. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 13:40, December 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * 4th edition is not technically being retconned. 5th edition is a development that removes the effects of the Spellplague. The Spellplague still happened. -hashtalk 22:56, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

I need help with a reference
Most of the stuff that needs a reference, has its reference right away in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide... I have almost all the references I need. But I cannot find the reference of Savras being the soothsayer mentioned in the prophecy, so I guess is from a novel I don't have. Someone can help me here?--Zeromaru X 13:46, January 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * It's an educated guess. Soothsayers can see the future - Savras was the god of divination. The soothsayer is said to be crushed in a cavern - Savras dies when his domain, a series of stone caverns known as The Eye, are destroyed along with the rest of Dweomerheart. -hashtalk 00:50, January 24, 2017 (UTC)

Far Realm origin
I noticed that the latest change sources a Living Forgotten Realms adventure for the Spellplague originating with the Far Realm. Are we treating LFR mods as valid sources? I thought they were unofficial fan-written adventures (unlike the current Adventure League stuff). --Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:51, February 3, 2018 (UTC)


 * I looked into this about 6 months ago, but I cannot recall where once could find the results here if anywhere. I had a post on Candlekeep where we discussed it. You could search for my posts there; I only have a few. If I recall correctly, at the beginning, they were canon. Then they got to a certain point and retroactively decided that they were no longer canon. So, the later one's are definitely not canon and contradict all kinds of lore. The earlier one's do not violate lore, since they were trying to be canon originally.


 * My opinion/reading of our canon policy is that an early LFR source could be used for a suggested bit of lore unless it were overruled by something higher in the canon hierarchy. For example, say something like, "Some scholars have speculated that the Spellplague originated in the Far Realm, but this has never been confirmed."


 * ~ Lhynard (talk) 13:37, February 3, 2018 (UTC)


 * As Lhynard said LFR were a canon source, at least for 4e. I guess, we can use those sources in the same manner that the video games: if it doesn't contradict another source higher in the Canon policy hierarchy, then can be considered as canon (again, at least for the stuff related to 4e, as we do now at the time they considered the LFR as canon).


 * As for the Far Realm origin of the Spellplague, that isn't only a LFR thing. Its hinted at in the Neverwinter Campaign Setting with the actions of the Abolethic Sovereignty, and in an adventure published in Dungeon ("That Which Never Sleeps", in Dungeon 195 IIRC). Also, is hinted in the MMO (see the lore section in the gamepedia wiki for the Spellplague and the Chasm). As in this case the LFR adventure seems to be not contradicting other sources, I guess we can take it as canon. But as Lhynard says, we can change the asseveration to be a suggestion.--Zero (talk) 15:14, February 3, 2018 (UTC)


 * One of the sources cited several times in this article is from late LFR, well after it was no longer considered canon. Specifically reference 10, "The End and the Beginning". - ZraveX (talk) 03:01, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You are correct. I will remove the information and the reference. Ir&#39;revrykal (talk) 10:14, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Video
It's so funny that the video uses material from Magic the Gathering, like Chandra and Vraska :)


 * Oh crap. The videos were made by FANDOM; despite our best efforts, we had no input into them. We've complained about past poor efforts, and now they hide them from logged-in users otherwise we'd complain too much. Thanks for letting us know, I'll review it later and submit another complaint to get it taken down. — BadCatMan (talk) 09:51, July 26, 2019 (UTC)

Should the Spellplague be made into sub-event of the larger planar happenings?
It has bugged me for a while that the Spellplague page lists such events as the Dweomerheart's destruction, Asmodeus' godhood, and 4e's planar alterations under its banner. After all, the Spellplague is only the effect Mystra's death and Cyric's corruption had upon the Weave. It'd be a bit like calling World War II a sub-event of the Pearl Harbor: it's the wrong way around.

I asked Ed Greenwood about this the other day. He stated that it was indeed the destruction of Dweomerheart specifically that began the domino effect if of the cosmology changing.

I then asked him what he would call this overarching planar event. He called it the "Passing of the Ethereal".

I don't know if that is a sufficiently canonical reference to name a new page after, but I at the very least propose making a new page for the 4e planar events and featuring the Spellplague as a subevent.

Perhaps "World Tree Destruction" would be a fitting name (based on that being a referenced consequence in The Crystal Mountain)? Or maybe just "Dweomerheart Cataclysm"?


 * I don’t dislike the idea that the page could do a better job of making it clear that the word “Spellplague” gets used to mean a few different things and that creates some confusion. That said, I don’t think it is correct to say that "the Spellplague" is not an appropriate way to refer to the planar-level consequences of Mystra’s death. In fact, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide (p50) explicitly uses “The Spellplague" to encompass all of these events you mention, and this usage is corroborated in the "Countdown to the Realms" article cited on the page. In regards to the tweets, there’s a known issue that if you ask Ed a leading question, he is liable to give you an answer that you want to hear. In this case, your description of Dweomerheart "exploding" and causing havoc on the planes is not quite consistent with how the Spellplague has previously been described. Rather, the plane "disintegrated", and the chaotic effect of the weave collapsing and infecting magic is what spread and caused havoc. From the "Countdown to the Realms" article: "An unthinkable catastrophe ensues when Cyric, aided and abetted by Shar, murders Mystra in Dweomerheart. The plane itself disintegrates at once, destroying Savras and sending the gods Azuth and Velsharoon reeling into the endless Astral Sea. Without Mystra to govern the Weave, magic bursts its bonds all across Toril and the surrounding planes and runs wild. In Faerûn, this event is known as the Spellplague." I’m less averse to the idea that we could expand on what happened to the Ethereal Plane, although Ed’s tweet in this regard reads to me like a suggestion rather than him spinning us up some new realmslore. Sorry to be so negative on the suggestion. Arodp88 (talk) 07:06, 17 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Regarding the reference to Dweomerheart exploding, I was quoting the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide (p74), which states: "When [Cyric] murdered Mystra in the Year of Blue Fire (1385 DR), the entire plane of Dweomerheart exploded, and the resulting Spellplague ravaged the cosmos." - ArrBeeNayr (talk) 02:44, 23 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. Interestingly, while that quote also seems to name the "cosmos"-level effects as the "Spellplague", it also could be read as saying that the explosion of Dweomerheart was the catalyst that actually started the Spellplague, whereas other sources link the Spellplague more directly to Mystra not being around to maintain the Weave. I think this may loop back to the original issue that the word "Spellplague" is used to refer to two different things in the 4e sourcebooks: the Spellplague phenomenon (i.e., magic going berserk in the absence of the Weave) and the Spellplague event (what we've otherwise been discussing, i.e., the Wailing Years when the 3e rules and setting fell apart). -Arodp88 (talk) 22:47, 23 August 2022 (UTC)