User talk:Vegepygmy

Welcome!
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Again, welcome! Happy scribing!

— Moviesign (talk) 17:45, June 17, 2019 (UTC)

Using Citations
BadCatMan gave you a step-by-step summary on your anonymous user page User talk:184.88.10.180. There is also Help:Citing sources which also takes you through the process. Please use the Source editor, it will all make much more sense. :) &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 18:05, June 17, 2019 (UTC)

Writing style advice
Hi! Please make sure you always use past tense in article, as per our Past-tense policy. Furthermore, you don't have to always capitalise creature names in regular text as they are not proper nouns. For example, "Umber hulks were found..." not "Umber Hulks are found..." This will make your articles easy to follow and for others to correct. Thanks. — BadCatMan (talk) 02:15, June 20, 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Making an effort to kick that habit. On another note, I made the Infiltrator page based on the Mongrel page and I don't know how to remove categories. Vegepygmy (talk) 05:24, June 20, 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I went over the mongrelman infiltrator page and cleaned it up. You can see the changes here. In particular, I used the full version of the infobox (never know when it might need to be added to), changed a few more instances of present tense and corrected some grammar, while Moviesign fixed the page numbers. Please make sure to use the actual page number, not the PDF page number.


 * The categories on the page are automatically generated by infobox entries, they can't be removed. There are no hard-coded categories on that page. Normally, however, categories can be added and removed from the Categories sidebar in the Source Editor, added via the Add Category button at the bottom of a regular page, or added via the Categories menu in the Visual Editor. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:57, June 20, 2019 (UTC)
 * So what if a category isn't accurate and it needs to be altered then?
 * Vegepygmy (talk) 15:41, June 20, 2019 (UTC)
 * Forgot to mention I had misunderstood the above earlier. I get it now. I'm a berk sometimes.
 * Vegepygmy (talk) 15:41, June 20, 2019 (UTC)
 * Forgot to mention I had misunderstood the above earlier. I get it now. I'm a berk sometimes.

Tren
Hey there, we have a problem with their origin story. Two forgotten realms references from 3.5e contradict eachother. Drizzt's guide says that the illithid of Oryndoll created the tren, whereas you found a source that says that yuan-ti created the tren.

Double checking.

Yes. It clearly says that the tren were created through yuan'ti breeding experiments on page 44 of Serpent Kingdoms. On the other hand it clearly states that the illithid created them in Oryndoll on page 81 of Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark. Awaiting your response.Gem Hound (talk) 00:29, June 23, 2019 (UTC)


 * Well bother. That's something of a nuisance. Alright how about this. Drizzt's guide is by its nature a guide made by someone else. Serpent Kingdoms is more like history being stated as fact. It's kinda like how Volo's guide is taken less seriously in places when it contradicts because it's being claimed by someone within the story. Drizzt doesn't go indepth on how the Illithids made the Tren while SK does. And I find it somewhat more believable that the Yuan-ti succeeded in that department since they are more closely related to the lizards. Especially when the Flayers already had Tzakandi as lizard slaves and a host of other powerful creatures to serve them without needing to create one that smells. Other sources I found said that Illithids didn't particularly like eating troglodytes do to their incredible stupidity and I can't find the value in using them as anything but flesh to be thrown into the cogs of other races' war machines. Besides that the Underdark is 2nd edition while Kingdoms is 3.5 and I can only assume the change was made because the Tren didn't make sense or fit the squid theme like the Mind Flayer's other pets and monsters. Ultimately I'm far from the last word on this but I would say that either the mind flayer's stole the credit or stole the methodology for creating Tren, and that Drizzt was mistaken.


 * (Vegepygmy (talk) 01:35, June 23, 2019 (UTC)


 * I think it should at least mention it, I will be doing that with the Serpent Kingdoms reference on the Oryndoll page. I put a note on the Oryndoll page, but it would be best to say Drizzt once said this but then scholars said this.Gem Hound (talk) 19:32, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
 * I will add though that there is alot of information in that book that Drizzt could not have IC, like the inner workings of a city like Oryndoll for instance as well as the ways in, which knowledge of which is actively stripped from everywhere.Gem Hound (talk) 04:38, June 25, 2019 (UTC)
 * I will also add to that, that it does fit the theme actually. Not the theme of mind flayers, but the theme of Oryndoll. 80% of Oryndoll's thralls were reptilians, with 95% of the ceremorphs being Tzakandi. So for Oryndoll in particular it did fit the theme. The city when you crunch numbers had about 16,400 Tren, Troglodytes, Lizardfolk and Tzakandi - while there were only 6,000 mind flayers including ulitharid.Gem Hound (talk) 13:40, June 25, 2019 (UTC)

I mean the themes of the mind flayers being brain monsters and tentacle creatures.

Vegepygmy (talk) 15:12, June 25, 2019 (UTC)


 * Duergar are not brain monsters or tentacle creatures yet they were also created by the illithid. I looked at it and we both were wrong about that. I was wrong in thinking it was specific to Oryndoll, You were wrong in thinking that they are just monsters. That may be their appearance, but the illithid's theme is extremely intelligent alien invaders bent on either outright destruction or devolution of civilizations on Toril. It always has been. So, it would make sense for the illithid of Oryndoll, after their failed attempts to create a super soldier thrall in the duergar, would try to do so with their primary thralls for the same reason. A large part of the illithid actually involves experimenting with other races–which doesn't just stop with ceremorphosis. They wish to be on the top and squash anything beneath them... They will go to any length to achieve victory beyond using arcane magic, and more often than not play the long game. They are after all "destined" to rule over the thrall races.Gem Hound (talk) 17:10, June 25, 2019 (UTC)