Forgotten Realms Wiki talk:Past-tense policy

I'd just like to start the discussion off by highlighting the discussion where this proposal stemmed from. Cheers. Johnnyriot999 20:03, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for providing a link to that, Johnny; I knew I was forgetting something. -- Heaven&#39;s Agent 20:07, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

This is going to get harder and harder now. 3.5e version of the Realms is largely what's represented here, current date as of 1375ish which starts to change drastically after that year and goes to hell in 1385. 4e Realms are going to be so much different... and over 100 years later, any consideration of a fork? How can this best be handled? -- Barfubaz 19:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No activity on this page for 8 months, then you add a comment on the talk page just before I make it policy! I totally missed this, sorry. We've discussed this quite a bit, in particular at Forum:4ed and the timeline, and my interpretation was a general agreement that this is best handled by having a tighter grip on writing style, making it clear when events occur on the timeline. This is reflected in the wording of the policy, but if you would rather see it handled another way, there's no reason why it can't be changed. Fw190a8 21:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well have been going over the changes announced and it's near completely a different world. Deities, maps, kingdoms, races, etc are hugely different, some echoes of the past. History would of course just be an extension. But, what would be useful to a 4e DM would make this site near useless for me a DM for a NWN2 multiplayer world set in 1375, and vice-versa. I just have a hard time imagining how you could do that in one wiki, at least without some pretty funky categorization and such. You handle it as you want, but that's my concern as a person who has grown to rely on this site for info. -- Barfubaz 21:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

History

 * As you may have noted, I've been laying out History like History of Myth Drannor. Can I propose we use ' : date ; ' in the History sections of Articals. They should be written in present text, as if it just happened. Refer Talk:History of Myth Drannor Also if we write the currently stuff, or the in the last few years stuff under years or between year sections it will make much more sence. Personally I think (note 100% sure on this idea) we need History sections on all articals to have them make more sence. The stuff above should be written as a ? pre-amble ? (Note sure if that's the right word) or an general introduction.
 * Hurtzbad 07:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Exclusion
Recently, a few edits were made to a few of the pages in Category:Years so that the articles comply with this policy. I thought we'd discussed this recently, but it took me a while to remember where. Over in Forum:Split the wiki, I suggested excluding this category from the policy, as present tense seems to be the standard for itemized histories, as evidenced in The Grand History of the Realms, on Wookieepedia, and on Wikipedia. I mention the latter two because a) Wookieepedia was specifically mentioned as something we might want to emulate and b) Wikipedia is the Grand Poobah of wikis.

In addition, Niirfa-sa had the following to say: "Personally, I'd prefer limiting the past tense to articles that specifically detail character biographies, events, background lore, etc, while leaving racial or class descriptions in the present tense unless canon has significantly altered these descriptors. It just seems awkward to me to talk about humans, for example, in the past tense as if they don't still exist in the setting."

What does everyone else think? Cronje (talk &sdot; contribs) 18:07, March 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think our roll of years should be written in the same tense/fashion as The Grand History of the Realms. 'Nuf said.&mdash;Moviesign 18:21, March 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * I thought FW already stated that the timeline is present... creatures and classes, but the rest is past... so I agree, Movie :) Darkwynters 19:28, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

To Amend or Not Amend
Given the discussion in Forum:Split the wiki and in Talk:Human can we please vote on amending the policy as per a statement by FW reposted by Darkwynters:


 * As per High Admin FW in Forum:Split the wiki... Creatures and :monsters, plus Timeline pages are in present tense... not items... please read:


 * "So, I suggest:
 * Locations such as nations, regions, geography and settlements (including planes/cosmology): past tense
 * Individuals (people and specific named monsters): past tense
 * Items (food, specific weapons, specific magic items): past tense
 * Deities: past tense
 * Historical (such as History of Waterdeep, but not years): past tense
 * Years: present tense
 * Racial and monster descriptions (elf, dragon, etc, but referring to no specific individual): present tense"

For me I would like years to be present tense and am indifferent to the racial and monster tense.--Ijkay (talk) 18:00, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Why, exactly, would you even want Years in the present tense? But definition 'years' will always be in the past and part of history. And if you tell about something, even just a day ago, that is the past. And past tense makes sense when the event already happened.

Not that I agree with the way the wiki does history anyway(you know the 4E is awesome and everything before that is just crap and gets a tiny foot note way). But no one liked the idea of splitting each article into separate history sections as the 'awesome 4E stuff' would not be on top. (Bloodtide (talk) 18:20, November 7, 2012 (UTC))


 * The reason we put years in the present tense is because that is the format used by everyone else, from other wikis (including Wikipedia and the Star Wars wiki) and by Realms history books, such as The Grand History of the Realms. Cronje (talk &sdot; contribs) 19:13, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the change, though I'd like to point out that in the Items section there should be a distinction between 'generic' items and specific items; to wit: Cheese is a dairy product consumed all over the Realms (generic; present); Elturel Gray was a cheese produced in the city of... (specific; past). Longsword (generic; present), Pooh's Longsword (specific; past). Races, Monsters and (specifically) rules should always be in the present unless it is canonically confirmed that they are extinct. I also suggest that common sense be applied; there are ways to use both tenses correctly in a sentence (the longsword is a weapon that was widely used...). --Sings-With-Spirits (talk) 19:27, November 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with Sings-With-Spirits about the generic items and substances being described in present tense and specific (perhaps "named") items, which will have a history and/or a chain of possession, being described in past tense. Races and monsters etc. can be in present tense but information about their location/population/history should be past tense. I'm not sure about what you mean by "rules" however. Most rules would fall under the "no crunch" policy I think, and those that do not are subject to change by WotC and would probably be better described in past tense. Your thoughts? I like all the suggestions in the bullet list above. I think the roll of years is great the way it is, in present tense. That's my vote.&mdash;Moviesign (talk) 14:10, November 8, 2012 (UTC)