Talk:Church of Vhaeraun

I will add sections about priestly equipment, magic, centers of worship, titles, and add more info about the clergy (including Darkmasks, and Masked Traitors, which deserve their own page).--Tsammarco (talk) 11:30, July 20, 2016 (UTC)

Questions
Dear everyone,

I'm Saya222 and I'd love to ask three questions regarding the newest edit.

The first one is simple correctness. There is a section Under Eilistraee and I would love to know whether and if yes how much should be transferred to the Churhc of Eilistraee-page.

The second one is that there is a case of lore contradiction. A WotC product contradicts Ed Greenwood's candlekeep forum entry. The rules are clear on that WotC supersedes. My question is how are such things handled? Is it normal to simply delete it or to write a note which essentially says "Ed Greenwood wrote in the candle keep forum different lore and that was" in the appendix?

The third one is about a template. It's from the adventure league and I know that the template for it is but I can't find the common structure for it on the Help:Templates-page. May I have the page for it?

Thank you for reading through

Best Regards

Saya222 Saya222 (talk) 22:53, November 19, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think that the passage about the difficult cooperation between Eilistraeeans and Vhaeraunites post 1375 DR should be included in both articles.


 * I don't own the adventure that you cited, but--unless it makes a general statement--it doesn't conflict with what Ed said. He in fact said that while Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are now allied, some of their followers still fight. The followers in Szith Morcane could simply be part of those. In any case, I'm curious about what it states about Eilistraee, Vhaeraun and their churches, if you feel like typing it here.


 * Likewise, many of the inhabitants of the Promenade were killed, but Eilistraee hadn't lost most of her followers yet. Could you type here the passage where that is stated? That I know, the Promenade had less than 500 drow living in it (and that was after Vhaeraun followers came in), while Eilistraee, as a lesser deity, had at least a few thousands of followers by then.


 * Also, IIRC, it wasn't Halisstra who warned Eilistraee (she was fighting Selvetarm in the Demonwebs at that time), but her priestesses.


 * The part about misinterpreting the deities refers specifially to Ilythiir, not to the dark elves in general. Eilistraee had only a small presence in Ilythiir (she was strong in Miyeritar at the time), and wasn't seen in a good light there, while Selvetarm didn't even exist. LEoF clearly refers to the main deities of Ilythiir at the time (in fact it doesn't even mention anything associated with Eilistraee or Selvetarm, when it describes those misinterpretations).


 * That said, thanks for your work, you researched really a lot of lore for this article--Tsammarco (talk) 23:52, November 19, 2016 (UTC)


 * Dear Tsammarco,


 * thank you for the quick answer and your editing. I will answer one by one to the questions.


 * First, I'm sorry, my wording was really bad in the article. I think there is a real lore contradiction because the statement was that the deity Eilistraee opposes the deity Vhaeraun. Also if you're interested, DDEX 3-16 has an army of Eilistraee followers taking part in sacking Maerimydra. Those who played it told me her treatment wasn't good though.


 * The statement about most of Eilistraee's following being dead. While writing this, I'm not at home, so I can't give you a page number (I'll write it later) but after the Promenade fell, other shrines were also attacked via portals from the main temple. I took this as the reason why only a 4-digit of people changed despite the formerly existence of far more people. Large scale dying also was one of the reasons why Q'arlynd was chosen cast the change dark elf ritual despite being second choice. Though, 5e made followers for every revived deity fall from the sky en masse and some logical explanation should be made.


 * The part with Halisstra is really my mistake, I'm sorry.


 * The part with Ilythiir's misinterpretation was another case of bad wording, I thought due to the entire section above being written about Ilythiir it would be evident but obviously it wasn't. My apologies here too. Also thank you for excluding Eilistraee out. The information about Selvetarm was connected to the one with the Yuirwood-section, do you think mention about the result of that one's birth should be mentioned.


 * I delete the War of Three Leaves section, that war is -17100 DR and thus after the Sundering.


 * Again thank you for the editing and righting mistakes


 * Best Regards


 * Saya222


 * P.S. I forgot to write about the deleted War of Three Leaves. That one was in the Grand Histories of the Realms.


 * Also I can't take all the credit because several people helped me in getting pieces of knowledge, the adventure league for example came from those who bought the bundle. But still thank you.


 * Thanks for clarifying. Before changing the lore, I think I'll purchase the adventure next week and read what they said, to see if there's a way to renconcile the two pieces of lore (or ask Ed himself on Twitter, to see what he has to say about it. He's really, *really* good at making sense out of contradicting lore, and he has already done that for some of the 5e incongruences, like the one about Tiamat being trapped in Avernus). I'm actually sad to hear that they are already overwriting Ed's lore. I was so glad to see Eilistraee and Vhaeraun at peace, and honestly it just makes sense for both of them to no longer actively fight each other, and focusing on the real enemy. Although Ed did specify that any hate or the likes between the two siblings has evaporated, but that their ideals and modus operandi remain deeply different and conflicting, so maybe they could still clash in certain circumstances (i.e. if followers of Vhaeraun keep practicing slavery, then Eilistraee/followers would likely try to stop that).
 * As for Eilistraee's followers getting a bad treatment in that adventure, heh. I guess that they all die, or that they are written as hypocritical bastards, or both. WotC seem to really enjoy to do that since Lady Penitent. Are there any info on Vhaeraun and followers there? I'm actually interested in both siblings.


 * About most Eilistraee's followers being dead, remember that--while the Promenade suffered heavy losses--Ghaundaur's minions were decimated too, and his trapped avatar was banished to a Maze plane. So, yes, their remaining forces would have needed to split among a lot of shrines, and then face the defenders. I think that it's unlikely that they many more followers died, even if the mage who were supposed to cas the ritual did. Unless the novel specifically says that most followers were dead, I don't think that we can write that


 * I talked about Selvetarm and Eilistraee in Ilythiir, because in the article it was generally stated that the deities of the Dark Seldarine were depicted as spider gods, and that all the deities of the Dark Seldarine killed their followers of that (when Selvetarm and Eilistraee in fact couldn't and din't, respectively). IMO it isn't needed to add more info about Selvetarm, because--IIRC--Zandilar asked for the help of Vhaeraun himself when the elves of the Yuirwood were in danger, so it's mostly about him, as his church wasn't really involved (so I guess that the info that you have already added is enough)


 * I know that the war of three leaves happened after Eilistraee met Cornaith and Sharlario Moonflower, but I added it as an example of what Ilythiir would eventually bring in the future, and that Eilistraee had warned Sharlario and Cornaith of in Evermeet (since that part of the article deals with her warning). In any case, I won't add it to the article again, since it is growing large as it is (it would probably be needed to create different pages for the various centers of worship, and then put links in the main page, like it was done for the church of Eilistraee and Ilmater pages)


 * Best regards--Tsammarco (talk) 13:34, November 20, 2016 (UTC)


 * About the template, if the document is a free downloadable PDF, then we use the Cite web template. If you have to purchase it and use a reader like a Kindle or a Nook, then it would be Cite digital book. If you give me a link to your source, I will create a template for it, if one does not already exist. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 01:27, November 20, 2016 (UTC)


 * Dear Moviesign,


 * thank you for the offer.


 * The informations would be:


 * Title: Szith Morcane Unbound (Adventure Code DDEX 3-15)
 * Adventure Design: Robert Adducci
 * Development and Editing: Claire Hoffman, Chris Tulach, Travis Woodall
 * Debut: February 5, 2016 (the date played on adventure league)
 * Release: March 1, 2016 (date opened for purchase on the dmsguild)


 * In the case a purchase link would be needed, it is this one |link.


 * Please ask me further for more information.


 * Again thank you for the offer


 * Best Regards


 * Saya222