Talk:Painbearer

Class?
I wasn't entirely sure how to handle this one, being unfamiliar with 2nd edition's specialty priests, which seems like a variant on that edition's cleric. I assumed it would count as a separate class and wrote the article accordingly. Please feel to check over my interpretation and de-crunching, and how I categorised it. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:15, April 25, 2014 (UTC)


 * BadCat, the 2e specialty priests were kind of like the kits from The Complete Book of Elves... they changed a few abilities, proficiencies, or spells. After checking out your page... everything looks wonderful :) - Darkwynters (talk) 22:52, April 25, 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree, it looks great. I would only point out that it doesn't quite follow the guidelines discussed in the forum. You have all the major sections except Culture and I would say that Entry qualifies as Culture. If you think it reads better they way you have it now, that's okay, I don't feel strongly about it. And hey, I found an obscure Painbearer for the Notable section :) &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 00:49, April 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Darkwynters: Okay. Would it be fair to put this page in Category:Kits (2e), then?


 * Moviesign: I looked at those (at least those on Template:Class) but I didn't think I had any particular information for "Culture", so I made a new section for Entry requirements, as I did for the martyred champion of Ilmater. That information wasn't very "cultural". Some of the specialty priests received some particular lore regarding their roles in the church and history, but there was none in this case.
 * Thanks. For Bevnor the Painbearer, I'd take that to be a title rather than a specific declaration of class, but I'll buy it. I'll have to go back over the books to see if there's any more. Do you know if specialty priests were statted specifically in the race and class lines in 2e? — BadCatMan (talk) 02:00, April 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * But I have found some more in Lands of Intrigue, thanks. Revered Father Darrom Vallson, also of the Knights Kuldar is titled as "Painbearer of Ilmater", yet statted as simply "LN hm P12 - Ilmater".
 * And apparently the Painbearer specialty priests trained at the Convent of St. Rhynda, so I have that to add now. — BadCatMan (talk) 02:04, April 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * I suppose if Brother Bevnor turns out to be a paladin, then he's not a specialty priest of 2e, but since he was titled Brother instead of Sir, it seemed logical. As for specific races or classes being specialty priests, I'll have to look around. The glaring example I know of is that all druids were considered specialty priests but didn't get anything extra in the Forgotten Realms Adventures sourcebook. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 02:41, April 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't know if I am answering your question or not, but here's what I found. Mielikki's SPs can be rangers and half-elf druid/rangers. Azuth's SPs are almost dual-classed cleric/wizards in one school of arcane magic. Milil accepts elves and half-elves as SPs. Malar accepts many evil humanoids. Lliira accepts gnomes. The list goes on. Does that help? &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 03:27, April 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * For the first, I've seen Ilmatari priests with custom titles like "Archsufferer" or "Enduring Servant" or "the Abased" and the like, so I'm inclined to see the title "the Painbearer" in the same vein, as a declaration of title or rank, "Painbearer" (capitalised) rather than class "painbearer" (lower case, as normal for classes). It's a narrow distinction, of course. I've been trying to divine the meanings of the additional titles of Ilmatari priests.


 * On page 78 of the Tethyr book it says Painbearers (capital P) are specialty priests of Ilmater. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 04:56, April 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * On the second, I meant the bracketed stats after NPC names, like the "(LN hm P12)" for Darrom Vallson. I found another one: Brother "Kalil the Painbearer (LG hm P14 of Ilmater)" from Empires of the Shining Sea. All the stats for priests say "P_" — does that mean Cleric, Priest, or Specialty Priest? — BadCatMan (talk) 03:47, April 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Aha! I found a note in the Amn book explaining it: C is Cleric, P is Specialty Priest. So, there are many more known painbearers. — BadCatMan (talk) 03:57, April 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah, okay. For the record, Faiths & Avatars, Demihuman Deities, and Powers & Pantheons all use C for cleric, SP for specialty priest, and Pal for paladin. On Hallowed Ground uses P for priests (clerics and druids) and specialty priests "unless stated otherwise". Forgotten Realms Adventures uses P for priests, D for druids, and P(Sp) for specialty priests. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 04:56, April 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * So, it varies by book. Great. I might have to go back and recheck all my NPCs. Well, thanks. — BadCatMan (talk) 05:10, April 27, 2014 (UTC)