Talk:Pool of Radiance (game)

Pool of Radiance series: timeline, continuity between games
A sidenote on PossessedPriest's edit. The games and novels do not cover the same events. Consider them to be separate. Example - the CoAB takes place after the book, in the game, Alias, Dragonbait, Giogi, and  Akabar all reference the events of the book. The game is an adaptation of the CoAB Adventure though from what I've seen when scanning through it.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 13:14, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * That is absolutely correct, but this issue goes even further than that. These games cannot fit in the actual timeline of the Realms as we know today. We know the first game (Pool of Radiance) explicitly takes place in 1358 DR (it states that it happens two years after the Year of the Worm, 1356 DR). The novel, however, takes place in 1340 DR. Considering there are 10 years between the first game and the last, it is impossible to have the PoR->CoAB->SSB->PoD order. The Time of Troubles (forcing the novel's date to be shifted backwards) also screws things up, making the original timeline impossible now. ~ Possessed Priest (talk) 13:25, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * I wonder if it's easier to shift the dates or make an assumption that its something else pretending to be Bane in PoD.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 13:46, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * I have tried, but alas, have not come to a satisfactory solution. For me, the only logical (and sad) conclusion is that the novels are canon, and the games are not. I'd love to hear your thoughts. ~ Possessed Priest (talk) 13:59, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * I was planning on looking into Curse of AB game and adventure next to add to AB novel im almost done with. So will be able to say more once i dive into. I know that in game and in manual the story continues from the previous game with the same characters, but the events in the adventure are fairly similar to a new group of PCs which makes me think the games can be considered stand-alone... Sidenote back in the 90s i conflated "bane" from the games with the unnamed "evil god" who was in the Eye of beholder games who has a separate entry on the wiki. But there is another contradiction - Moander, who was banished from the realms by the time PoD game starts, even though the presence of cultists can be explained, no reason why they wouldn't exist... Rant over. haha Artyom.pavlov (talk) 15:17, July 14, 2020 (UTC)
 * actually, my last point, looks like Moander was depicted as dead in PoD.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 16:36, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * The games are certainly not standalone. It explicitly states in the provided material that it is the same set of characters. Otherwise, the journal entries and things you can encounter in the game do not make sense. Sure, you can start the game with any set of characters, but those set of characters are assumed to have completed the previous events (even if the player did not). Take these parts of the Secret of the Silver Blades adventurer's journal:


 * Pool of Radiance:
 * "Maybe you were right, maybe I shouldn't have followed those crazy adventurers. I was such a young fool - chaffing to escape from the thumb of that officious council clerk, my head filled with the bards' songs of the great heroes who had destroyed the Pool of Radiance..."


 * [Hillsfar happens here]


 * Curse of the Azure Bonds:
 * "When I heard that they had turned up in Tilverton, dazed and cursed with some kind of azure bonds, I could no longer restrain myself... "


 * Secret of the Silver Blades:
 * "Now I am told that my heroes have appeared, naked and unconscious, in some frozen part of the Dragonspine Mountains..."


 * Following it up, the Pools of Darkness adventurer's journal states:


 * Pools of Darkness:
 * "For ten years your glorious band has fought Evil wherever it has threatened the Realms. Lord Bane has suffered many defeats at your hands and new peace washes over the lands. Now your path comes full circle - back to the thriving city of Phlan..."


 * From this, it is very clear that the games are not at all standalone and are totally connected, just like other series.


 * Note: With regards to Bane, that's totally understandable as the character is known as the Dark God in the Eye of the Beholder games. ~ Possessed Priest (talk) 17:37, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * Counterpoint. In actual playthrough of the games, NPCs always react like they don't know you even though they have met you in previous installments. I can dig around for video examples later if you want. But i think the problem here is TSR's licensing and story editors. All they needed to do is not name a year hah.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 18:07, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid the counterpoint doesn't exactly work out. These NPC reactions happen in most video game sequels, to satisfy players that have not completed the previous game. Like in Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, you can start the game fresh. You can say to any of the companions, such as Jaheira who were captured by Jon Irenicus and say "Wait, who are you?". That does not mean that the player character, Gorion's Ward, is a completely new character that was never born in Candlekeep (i.e., saying the events of Baldur's Gate didn't take place) and just randomly got caught. These dialogues are there to satisfy players who have not played the prequel. Just because you can jump into games at any point, does not mean that the prequel or other parts of the series are irrelevant. The notes above make it absolutely clear that it's the same party, just like any other series. ~ Possessed Priest (talk) 18:53, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * Yup. But Jaheira in BG2 will reply to that something like "don't you remember me after all we've been through? I'm such and such". And all other dialogue and options imply the previous storyline. In the gold box games, all dialogue is scripted to be as if the character is meeting PCs for the first time. Although I see your point.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 19:10, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * I see your point as well, but it's essentially the same; both games imply that the previous game's events have happened in the past, though the player can "start fresh", as it's a sequel. It's more difficult to tell in this game series, first of all, because the games are so far apart in time. PoD takes place 10 years after PoR, so I wouldn't be surprised if an NPC from the same town couldn't recognise the party. Secondly, the games don't have the same companions (that can join the party), like the BG series does, who could definitely recognise you. Thirdly, these games rely on a different engine, and are very limited (so much of the information is in the boxed set itself, not the game). It's like this on purpose: In CoAB, "You awaken in a small room. Looking around, you notice that all your gear is gone, as is your memory of recent events". This pretty much allows new players to get involved straight away. The manual, cluebooks, and adventurer's journals all state that the characters are the same. If you take a look at the back of the box of CoAB: "After you saved the city of Phlan and located the Pool of Radiance, a simple trip to Tilverton should have been as easy as a noon-day stroll. But it wasn't... Ambushed, captured, and knocked unconscious, you awake with no idea who attacked you or how you arrived in Tilverton". ~ Possessed Priest (talk) 19:50, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * Ok i yield, haha. Ambiguous cannon at very best.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 20:40, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * Indeed! This is why I'm having such a hard time fitting the games into known canon (if it is actually possible). If you have any other ideas, please let me know. ~ Possessed Priest (talk) 20:48, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * I grew up reading Marvel and they treat so much stuff as a sliding timeline just ignoring inconsistencies or explaining them away with retcons. Ed Greenwood always says that FR to him is like Marvel comics. If it were up to me i would just slap a box saying that this page is ambiguous and a note with a rough date/century and explanation on why. Non-committed commitment? Artyom.pavlov (talk) 21:18, July 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * Having a specific canon conflict template to stick onto this video game series and their associated pages is the last resort, should we accept that it does not fit into canon (but still want to document it). I once joked about this series being set in an "alternative universe with a different timeline", but it either seems to be that or reject the series as a whole... ~ Possessed Priest (talk) 21:56, July 14, 2020 (UTC)