Template talk:Cite dragon

Paizo Publishing
Paizo only published Dragon Magazine from issue 298 forward. Prior to that it was Wizards of the Coast or TSR. Can we get the template changed to reflect that? Lethalox 20:21, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

Format of a Dragon Magazine Citation
I think we should probably agree on a format for these citations before we get too many of them and it becomes a pain to change. For citing the magazine in general we have this format: Template:Cite dragon/### where ### is the issue number. Then there are some that add the title of an article on the end: Template:Cite dragon/###/Article title which I think is logical. Then there are some are like this: Template:Cite dragon/Article title –OR– Template:Cite dragon/Article title/### which does not follow from the general citation in the first example, but does have the advantage if the user knows the title of the article but not the issue number&mdash;the auto-suggest will supply the rest if the user starts typing the title. So, which do you prefer?

EDIT: And what should the sorting field be for Category:Dragon citation templates? Article title or issue number? &mdash; Moviesign (talk) 23:58, September 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh dear. Same goes for Dungeon magazine too, I guess.
 * Personally, I don't think citation templates for specific articles should be necessary. We don't reference sourcebooks by chapter or section, and a reference for a whole magazine allows one to reference all content within it. Maybe extra parameters, similar to the page number, could be included to give a specific article title or feature of the magazine as well as its author. For example, Cite dragon/84 could allow say for the article "Flumphs of the World" by Eddy Greenwood on page 84. That would be adaptable to any article in the magazine, as well as columns, letters, even advertising. That would get complicated with multiple authors though.
 * So, I can also see the benefits in specific tailored citation templates. Well, both whole-magazine and single-article templates can exist side-by-side.
 * As for how to sort them... Each possible has its pros and cons. On one hand, if single-article templates are preceded by the issue number, then they sit together with the whole-magazine templates, and make it easier to pick one or the other. On that basis, sorting by issue number seems most logical, which also shows a progression from oldest to newest. On the other hand, sorting by article title collects a series of articles together, which is also handy though not essential. I dunno. If I had to pick, I'd say put issue numbers first and sort by them, it's not pretty but it is logical. — BadCatMan (talk) 06:06, September 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * How about this: We make templates for each magazine by number, as the first example above (and either zero-pad the number or use the sorting field), and list as the author the Editor in Chief (with ", Ed." or ", Editor" after the name). This allows someone to cite anything in the magazine, including pages with artwork or advertising. Then add individual citations for articles (like the second example above) that list the authors and/or illustrators in the usual fashion. That way, readers can see who wrote the article (maybe they are big fans of Eddy Greenwood) and we can categorize it under "Works by Eddy Greenwood". I'd like the references to be as useful to readers as possible and I feel that seeing the magazine article title is better than seeing just an issue number. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 13:58, September 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yep, that's what I thought, in more detail. :) I have to agree, article titles in the reference list are more useful, so citation templates for both whole magazines and specific articles is most useful. — BadCatMan (talk) 09:22, September 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry I did not read this earlier... I love this idea... so there does not need to be multiple citations, such as on my Dragon magazine 8 article! Just keep me posted and when we have a unified idea I will fix all my Dragon pages :) - Darkwynters (talk) 21:59, September 30, 2014 (UTC)

I think the consensus (so far) is that we do want multiple citations, one for the magazine as a whole, and one for each article that gets referenced. The format to be used is: Template:Cite dragon/### --and-- Template:Cite dragon/###/Article Title and sort by issue number followed by the article title. The issue number does not have to be zero-padded for the link, but should be zero-padded for the sort key. So we should have: Template:Cite dragon/14 (which already exists) and Template:Cite dragon/14/Excerpt From an Interview With a Rust Monster If my proposed changes are put into use, the templates would be: which would look like:

Does that work for everybody? &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 15:21, October 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, that looks good. I suppose we should begin renaming the citation templates to include issue number? That could be tedious, but the existing template transclusions should still work if the templates are moved with redirects. At least until the pages are updated. — BadCatMan (talk) 08:11, October 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * I was just going to do one citation at a time, fixing the articles and the templates together, to avoid creating many redirects and then having to go back and delete them later. Both methods will work, so whatever floats yer boat... :) I wasn't volunteering anyone but myself, but help is always appreciated. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 12:39, October 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay, I volunteer myself to fix the Dragon pages... hehe... is the template ready to use, Movie :) - Darkwynters (talk) 19:57, October 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * The new templates are already in place, but the "fix" you're talking about is just organizing them as discussed above&mdash;the templates don't really impact that because they should be backward compatible. Be aware I'm still rewriting the documentation for them. I'll try to finish that up very soon. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 22:43, October 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * I can have my bot update the templates on individual pages, if you give me the details of what to change and how. — BadCatMan (talk) 08:46, October 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't know how useful the bot will be. You seem to have the gist of it with your edits of Template:Cite dungeon/75/Into the Nest of Vipers. We're just renaming the templates (with or without redirects, your choice) to the format agreed upon above, changing the sortkey to the zero-padded issue number, and then cleaning up the links from "what links here" to eliminate the redirects. I'm doing one issue at a time (which avoids redirects), but if you cut a swath with the bot then I believe the cleanup will have to be a separate task. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 15:09, October 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Turn on "Show bots" in Recent Changes. Using AutoWikiBrowser (the bot program), I found all pages using the old Cite dungeon/Into the Nest of Vipers and changed the links to Cite dungeon/75/Into the Nest of Vipers. I only had rename and sort the template, then run the bot over the articles to update the template calls. It's less practical if you have only a few articles to update, but quite a time saver if you have a dozen or more. — BadCatMan (talk) 07:03, October 11, 2014 (UTC)

New sorted list
I added Template:Cite dragon/List by title and put a link on the category page so folks can now sort the magazines by title if they so desire. The list is short right now, but as the template are converted to the new format, the list will grow. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 20:25, October 11, 2014 (UTC)

What to do with Annuals and Best Of's
What format would you like to see for the Annuals and Best Of issues? I don't know if I can use this template because of the dependency on the issue number, but I might make it work. If anyone has suggestions before I dig into the template code again, please post here. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 20:25, October 11, 2014 (UTC)