Talk:Mind flayer

Remove the crunch! See Forgotten Realms Wiki:No crunch. Fw190a8 11:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The crunch is still there, so I have readded the cleanup template. Fw190a8 04:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It's no matter now, I've cleaned it all up and removed the template. Fw190a8 05:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorcerers?
Do Illithid sorcerers really need there own box thingy? it really dosnt tell any thing that the normal one doesnot 1.Aberration:They are the same Race so chances are if a Illithid is a Aberration then a Illithid sorcerer is one as well 2:underdark: Just because they are sorcerers does not mean they are going to leave the underdark and live happily on the world above 3.Lawful Evil:this is really the only thing that could change, but it dosnt so.... basically the Illithid sorcerers box is the same as the Illithid box just a different picture so could someone remove it? if i try i'm afriad i would mess the whole articale up
 * I tend to agree that there is no need to have the second template on the page. The article does still need a bit of work. Perhaps I will give it a once-over at some point. Please do feel free to make any edits you think are appropriate, because any mistakes made can be reverted or easily fixed. Fw190a8 12:48, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Reproduction
How do the Illithids reproduce? --Pinguinus impennis 04:39, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * They lay soft eggs, like frogs, which hatch into tentacled tadpole things. When they've grown bigger, and devoured most of their siblings, the illithids insert the tadpoles into the ears of humanoid victims. The tadpoles crawl into their victims' brains and transform their host bodies into new mind flayers. -- Rowan Earthwood 00:52, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's pretty creepy. Thanks for answering! By the way; do they mate like humans do? --Pinguinus impennis 02:21, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Name of article
I've been looking at the articles that link to "mind flayer" and those that link to "illithid" and although one doesn't greatly outnumber the other, illithid seems to be more commonly used in wikilinks. On that basis, it might be better to call the article "illithid", but by what name are they more commonly known in the source material? Any thoughts on this? Fw190a8 (talk &middot; contr) 11:33, October 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * FW, I think before 3rd edition... they were more commonly called Mind Flayers... but more recently they have been named Illithids... this is only personal speculation based on twenty years of gaming... not on looking at the sourcebooks... if there is more links, rename, oh great high admin :)

I've understood "mind flayer" to be a name given by other races, while they call themselves "illithid". I suppose there's three approaches: to use their proper name, the one they call themselves (illithid); the one that we the players and users generally know them as (seems both are common); or their proper name as given by D&D game designers. For that, "mind flayer" is that they get called in the Monster Manual 3.5 and Monster Manual 4th edition, and presumably the older monster books. So I'd assume that to be the official name. The official name generally known to users would seem to be the best one.

Similarly, we use halfling, even though they properly called hin in the Realms, and moon elf rather than teu-tel-quessir, and so on. — BadCatMan (talk) 03:49, October 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * BadCat, excellent points :) Darkwynters (talk) 04:52, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Illithids are definitely from the future
"Some theorized mind flayers to be aliens from the future (as stated in The Sargmne Prophecies),[8] who had come back in time to save their species from extinction. Another tale is that they were a cursed in-bred mutant offspring of humans from a distant world.[9] However, more convincing evidence pointed to a more sinister origin in the Far Realm.[7]"

I don't see why more convincing evidence points to the last? I checked the Astromundi Cluster and the Underdark, which are the 2 sources against them being from the future, and neither says they aren't. The Underdark one actually has no nothing about the Far Realm, (that I could find) and the Astromundi Cluster's description, is, well, very futuristic, pointing more towards the illithids being from the future. Sorry if I'm out of line, I just spent a ridiculously long time preparing a campaign based around the mind flayers and a trip to their future (and back, and a paradox, and some aboleths.. you get the idea)

Finally, it the "Lords of Madness" book, it specifically states: "The mind flayers are the most notable example of these time-lost aberrations, although only a handful of the illithid savants (and likely no living member of any other race) know of the race’s secret origin. A starfaring race of great power exist- ing at the very end of time, the mind flayers faced extinction with the imminent ending of all things. Through a great and terrible spell, the mind flayers dispatched great spelljamming fleets from the cold, pitiful remnants of their dying cosmos back through time, appearing in the ancient skies of younger worlds. They arrived in the present era two thousand years ago (although the exact date varies from world to world, since their time-traveling magic produced different results as they journeyed into different cosmologies). The enslavement of the gith and the duergar dates back to early years of the illithid invasion of the present era." pg 7

Basically, that they ARE from the future, and that they have spelljamming in the Astromundi Cluster BECAUSE they're from the future. Also, in a different bit (not posted, I can add it too) it talks about how the aboleths, who remember everything that their ancestors knew, (since their memories are passed down) are worried by the illithids because they don't remember them coming into existence.

Also, does anyone mind if I add the "Lords of Madness" as a source for this page?

DarthTahu? (talk) 09:35, October 15, 2016 (UTC)DarthTahu?


 * So, I checked the three sources in the history. You are correct: the third does not claim what it was said to at all, so I removed it. This strengthens your case.


 * The other three sources are not FR sources, however, and this is an FR wiki. Until it is clearly stated that they came from the future in an FR source, (which may still be the case,) we need to continue expressing such histories as speculation. (That you as a DM have set it in stone is up to you. I do that as a DM all the time.)


 * Now, if you can find a source that clearly states that the matter of the connection to the Realms in one of the other three sources, in particular, then we are golden.


 * That being said, regardless, by all means, please add the information you found about them in Lords of Madness: The Book of Aberrations.


 * ~ Lhynard (talk) 16:04, October 15, 2016 (UTC)

Cleanup report
As part of the Forgotten Realms Wiki:Video Project, I have completed a major rewrite and expansion of the article, trying to organize and make sense of all known (so far) sources of mind flayer lore.

As far as their controversial origin goes, I tried to keep an impartial view of the three major hypotheses: Far Realm, future, and mutated humans from the Astromundi Cluster, since there is no Realms-specific source (or even one that so much as mentions the Realms) to break the degeneracy.

I have nominated the page for good article status for the scrutiny of the mods. :) &mdash; Sirwhiteout (talk) 02:24, February 5, 2018 (UTC)