Talk:Princes of Shade

Princes of Shade - Their names and number
There is some lack of clarity about the real number of the sons of Telamont Tanthul. According to "Lords of Darkness", there are 12 princes of Shade. Ten are named, including Melegaunt, but Escanor and Malath from the "Return of the Archwizards"-Trilogy are missing. In the trilogy, however, 13 princes are mentioned (in the following, I refer to the page numbers of the omnibus-edition). In "The Sorcerer" (p. 592) Telamont is called "father of the Thirteen Princes" and at the end of "The Summoning", Melegaunt summons 12 princes. While he stays back in Wulgreth's layer, three princes go to Evereska, three to Hidden Lake, and six to Shadowdale (p. 233-234). Therefore, Melegaunt is the 13th prince. That leaves the problem of the name of the prince who is obviously killed by Storm Silverhand in the battle of Shadowdale. Actually, his name is nowhere mentioned - he's simply called "the square-chinned one" (p. 229, 238). When in the final battle at the mythallar of Shade "all ten surviving princes" (p. 651) are mentioned, the number has to include Telamont who joins the fight, because at that time, Melegaunt, Escanor, Rivalen and "the square-chinned one" are dead. If there were only 12 princes, there would be only eight (excluding Telamont) or nine (including Telamont) surviving princes to fight the Chosen of Mystra. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.43.218.52 (talk • contribs)


 * Where is it stated that Rivalen is dead? Having read Paul S. Kemp's The Twilight War, it is clear that Rivalen is still alive as of those novels (which take place later in the timeline), being the main antagonist, especially in the later novels. Cronje (talk &sdot; contribs) 16:29, November 28, 2012 (UTC)

Rivalen is killed by Vangerdahast at the end of "The Siege" during the battle of Tilverton. I think he's later probably resurrected by Shar while Escanor, Melegaunt, "the square-chinned one" and Malath remain dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.43.218.52(talk • contribs)


 * WARNING: "HEAD CANON" — Module WG7, "Castle Greyhawk," is infamous for being a total joke of a module; i.e., it contains blatant references to Star Trek and Mordenkainen uses the castle to operate a film studio. However, p. 97 describes a cube of malachite called "The Darkness That Holds All Shadows" that houses a "Power of Shadow" named Zol Darklock, described as a "shadow prince" who lived as a noble in the Suel Imperium of Oerth while investigating Xodast, a Mage of Power believed to have forged the infamous "Bringer of Doom", the artifact used as a focus by the Mages of Power to unleash the Invoked Devastation against the Baklunish Empire two centuries later.


 * So here's the thing; the article, "Legacies of the Suel Imperium" in Dragon #241, p.47, attributes a number of monsters to them, with each section prefaced by a letter, speech, or the like; for skulks, this includes two letters sent to Mordenkainen — the second written by Priestess Johanna of Almor, dated Wealson 20, 585 CY, in response to the first… written by Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun of Waterdeep, dated Ches 12, 1369 DR. Linking those time periods together (the first letter written late winter/early spring, the second letter written late spring/early summer), this would infer that the Empire of Netheril fell –339 DR / –1,124 CY, and the Suel Imperium fell 363 DR / –422 CY.


 * My point? Perhaps after the Fall of Netheril Lord Shadow sent hand-picked agents, perhaps his own sons (under pseudonyms), to other material worlds in search of powerful magic that they could use to defeat the phaerimms and restablish their empire… but one "son" never came home after exploring the Suel Imperium, having become trapped (and eventually freed centuries later). In order to not appear weak, this "thirteenth son" was wiped from Shade records (if it became known that a son had gone missing, it would mean they could be separated… and if separated, they could be divided and conquered). Yeah, it's my own, personal "head canon" based on taking Castle Greyhawk seriously… I just found it amusing how it all fits into place so neatly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Âmesang (talk • contribs)