User talk:HopHoppip

Disruptive Edits
Your edits to Deep Sashelas were good, but I have temporarily blocked you, because your edits to Corellon have been disruptive and are violations of our policies here.

Our policy is to treat biological sex and gender as distinct on this wiki and to avoid anachronistic/modern terms, especially if they never appear in the sourcebooks or the lore. Undoubtedly, Corellon has been able to change his sex&mdash;so can most gods anyhow&mdash;since 1e, but that is his apparent biological sex. It refers to a physical form, not how he relates to others grammatically or socially. Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes makes it clear that he chooses the masculine gender to relate with the elves.

And even if he were gender non-binary&mdash;and some characters in the Realms certainly are&mdash;we do not use anachronistic terms. We only permit three genders on this wiki: masculine, feminine, and unspecified.

Our wiki is also edition-neutral. We do not favor any edition over another unless there is a direct conflict, and then we actually prioritize Realms sourcebooks over general D&D ones and newer ones over older ones. Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes is a newer source than 5e Dungeon Master's Guide, so its treatment of Corellon is considered both more current and more relevant than the DMG.

Lastly, the proper place to state your opinion about such an issue would be the page's Talk page, before making sweeping edits.

I recognize that gender identity is a sensitive and important issue in our modern world, but we are a wiki about the lore of a fictional multiverse, and we have policies to remain true to that lore as written as best we can. As a DM, of course, anyone is able to make Corellon as genderfluid as they wish, but having checked this issue countless times among multiple long-time editors, we are convinced that the lore is that Corellon is a masculine but form- and sex-changing deity; the sources never use the modern term "genderfluid" and neither will we.

~ Lhynard (talk) 21:06, 15 May 2021 (UTC)


 * This makes sense, and I’m sorry for breaking this rule. I was not aware of its existence. In the future, I’d like to be warned or alerted of any rules I’m breaking before I get blocked, since I don’t know all of the rules. I won’t break these rules again.


 * That being said, is there any way you could revert my last edit and remove the gender part? There were a lot of minor changes unrelated to the gender thing (adding commas, improving sentence structure, and the like). I think they improved the quality of the article, at least a bit, and I’d rather not have to do them all again manually.


 * (Also, in my opinion, we should find a term for non-binary characters on this wiki. Corellon wasn’t the only “deity” in the PHB, so there are probably at least a few. The terms we use nowadays are fairly recent, but the concept has existed for a long time. If no one can find any better ones, I think “neutral” or “androgynous” may work. I need to verify this, but I think the latter term may have existed in since Ancient Greece.)
 * HopHoppip (talk) 21:35, 15 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for responding. I removed the block.


 * Most of our policies are listed under the Help menu above, though, admittedly, the gender/sex policy is not yet. (I should fix that.) It was discussed in a forum post but really should be easier to find.


 * Unfortunately, it's not possibly to cherry-pick edits. That's why we recommend that new users start slow and make small edits initially, until they learn the ropes. However, your edits are still there in the edit history. If you access that, you can at least see what it was that you did. I agree that you had some general improvements mixed in with the gender things.


 * The terms that we agreed on for the wiki for non-binary gender were "neither" or "unspecified".


 * "Androgynous" is too broad a term. Usually, it refers to physical appearance, though it certainly can refer to behavior as well. It does not correlate to what pronouns a person uses, however. For example, the celestial paragons are all androgynous&mdash;which is simply a polite way of saying that they do not have sex organs and look more male than the typical female or more female than the typical male&mdash;yet all of them have gender. "Androgynous" is a term that belongs in the Description section for individuals. For such creatures, they have the Sex of "Sexless"&mdash; unless they are actually male or female. One can be an androgynous male or an androgynous female or an androgynous, sexless individual. Corellon typically appears as an androgynous male as far as apparent sex, though as a god, he is truly sexless unless he wants to participate in actual sex. But, he uses masculine pronouns and fulfills the masculine gender role in his pantheon. (He even sometimes fulfills a homosexual masculine role in the pantheon, as some cults consider his consort as a masculine entity at times, but he remains masculine in this.)


 * ~ Lhynard (talk) 21:56, 15 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your understanding. By the way, these issues were communicated to you in the edit summaries, which are used to explain reasons for reverting edits as well as for making them. If you want to see how an edit was accepted or want to see what happened to a change you made, just check the page's history, for example, here.
 * And as well as gods being able to change their apparent sex, gender, and species at will, Corellon's article explains how he began as both male and female, before he shifted (or transitioned, maybe) his default aspect to male, which should be read as the same as man or masculine given the language of the time (being Evermeet: Island of Elves, 1998). BadCatMan (talk) 03:15, 16 May 2021 (UTC)