Talk:Pandemonium

The more I look into it, the more I am convinced at this article is not canon to Forgotten Realms. The only source mentioned is the Manual of the Planes 4th edition which I don't believe is used in Forgotten Realms except for the planer traits. See this FAQ which was printed after Manual of the Planes 3rd edition stating that "Faerûn has a unique cosmology, although Faerûn's various planes have the traits described in Manual of the Planes. For example, Faerûn's Outer Planes are divinely morphic. Furthermore, the cosmology presented in the FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign Setting assumes that no other cosmologies exist anywhere else. That is, the book assumes that the Great Wheel does not exist at all."

(This was after the great retcon of 3rd edition, so the Great Wheel cosmology is still canon for FR in 1st and 2nd edition.) My research has led me to believe that Pandemonium was removed in 3rd edition FR and the Deep Caverns/Dismal Caverns plane took its place in the World Tree cosmology and eventually in the World Axis cosmology. That means that this article really doesn't belong on this wiki.

What do you think sirs? Moviesign 03:51, March 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, Pandemonium has been referenced once or twice in FR, even in 3.5 edition. The Underdark sourcebook gives us this about Throrgar, the Shrieking Abyss: "The depths of Throrgar are riddled with planar connections to Cocytus, the second layer of Pandemonium." That may be in error and should be something else, or implies that the Great Wheel still exists in some form.
 * Plus, deities like Cyric and Garagos dwelled there in 2nd edition. -- BadCatMan 06:45, March 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, is this page specifically a 4th edition Pandemonium? -- BadCatMan 06:56, March 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * It is my contention that this article is about the 4th edition Pandemonium from core D&D and not FR. However, if you have a source or sources that can put this plane in the FR canon cosmology in 3e or 3.5, then perhaps this page could be rewritten accordingly. If you have references for Cyric or Garagos being in Pandemonium, please add them to Pandemonium (Great Wheel) and perhaps that page can be renamed to this one (because it would no longer be specific to the Great Wheel cosmology) &mdash; Moviesign 13:18, March 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * I just meant that some aspects of the old Great Wheel and Pandemonium (Great Wheel) remained in 3.x edition, so it wasn't completely removed. But this page I now realise is specific to a different Pandemonium in 4th edition. I jumped ship with the Spellplague, so I have nothing more to add. -- BadCatMan 14:13, March 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Any reference you have for Cyric or Garagos re Pandemonium is welcome because I haven't found it in any of my sources yet. The Forgotten Realms Adventures sourcebook puts Cyric in Hades. &mdash; Moviesign 14:29, March 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, can I use the reference from Faiths & Avatars found at the bottom of Supreme Throne? I don't have that book to verify it. &mdash; Moviesign 14:34, March 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Basically, I'd say ditch this page, move Pandemonium (Great Wheel) over the top of this one, and update links as necessary. Does that sound agreeable for everyone? Fw190a8 (talk &middot; contr) 14:49, March 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm okay with that as long as no one objects or finds an FR source that makes this plane canon. I can update links to avoid a redirect if so.&mdash;Moviesign 15:51, March 10, 2012 (UTC)