Category talk:Priests by deity

Priest vs. cleric
At the moment we have Category:Priests by deity and Category:Clerics by deity. As far as I can see they exist because the function of the former is about categorizing by occupation, the other about categorizing by class. Still, the vast majority (with an exception being druids?) of characters would be simultaneously in both (which is rarely applied). Do we really need/want that? As long as I do not hear more arguments for this separation I would rather see both merged into Category:Priests by deity, as the affiliation seems to me more about fluff than about the crunchy distinction by class. Daranios (talk) 14:38, June 29, 2015 (UTC)


 * Daran, technically I use priest for novel or video game characters and cleric is for actual source material characters... I agree, it does become a mess... personally, we need better rules on categorizing stat characters from novel/game ones... such as all clerics and druids fall under the priest (also novel/game ones) category... all warriors (for novel/game ones) are fighters, rangers, barbarian, warriors (3e), etc. Mages (Used for novel/game characters) are magic-users, wizards, sorcerers might ...though this leads to headaches, such as thieves vs. rogues... - Darkwynters (talk) 15:15, June 29, 2015 (UTC)


 * Ah, now I see where this is coming from and that it is linked to more complicated issues. Still, I would prefer in this limited (though still work-intense to sort out) case of ...by deity to use the more general "Priest", which would be applicable for both novel/game and sourcebook characters. Characters with a known class (like cleric) would still get those categories of course, but the ...by deity would be uniformely Category:Priests by deity. Because like me, I guess most readers that get to Category:Priests by deity will not expect that there is an additional Category:Clerics by deity which they could also browse in this regard. Daranios (talk) 20:08, June 30, 2015 (UTC)


 * Sounds like we need more input... from other editors :) - Darkwynters (talk) 19:13, July 1, 2015 (UTC)


 * Indeed! :-) Daranios (talk) 19:16, July 1, 2015 (UTC)


 * In 2nd edition, "priests" included specialty priests (including druids), clerics, shamans, and monks (yes, monks cast spells back then). Hopefully no edition uses "priest" as a class name (right?). I'd like to hear what BadCat has to say about occupation vs. class. It would be a lot of work to eliminate the Clerics by deity category. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 19:55, July 1, 2015 (UTC)


 * I've been summoned. I'd prefer a distinction between class and occupation; all clerics may be priests, but not all priests are clerics. Some are adepts, experts, druids, favoured souls, paladins, etc., or even fighters or whatever, in 3e terms. (Same with bards, there's a different between class and occupation.) An adventuring cleric might not even be a formal priest. What someone does in the world is different from how they're statted
 * I'm pretty sure I've seen 1e and 2e sources stat NPCs as simply "priest", and I thought that was a standard class name. Like thief instead of rogue. If priest is just an umbrella term, then statting classes will be much harder.
 * Anyway, "Clerics by deity", "Druids by deity", and Paladins by deity" seem increasingly redundant. Druids by deity" seems barely even used, suggesting it's already deprecating. If we treat these classes as solely crunchy, they're unnecessary. For most NPCs, there's no canon mechanical difference by deity, only a level number. We have these but not "Favoured Souls by deity" or "Invokers by deity", so it's clear we can't and shouldn't try to keep up with every new class in each edition.
 * And a cleric of Ilmater is already categorised as a Worshiper of Ilmater and a priest of Ilmater. Perhaps a category intersection between "Clerics" and "Priests/Worshipers of Ilmater" would be more effective? "
 * Fortunately, it wouldn't be too hard to change or remove the categories: I can have the bot go through the category trees and find and delete or change it to something else. Um, when I can use my bot again, that is. — BadCatMan (talk) 13:49, July 2, 2015 (UTC)


 * Cool... it takes 2 admins to cast a summon high admin spell... hehe... 2e priest was the broad class category for both clerics and druids, just like warrior was the broad class category for fighters, rangers, and paladins... Anyway, I agree, "cleric of Sune" and "worshiper of Sune" redundant :) - Darkwynters (talk) 14:34, July 2, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, to clarify the above discussion (please speak up if I got it wrong) and to put specific changes on the table, I propose the following: Any additional or alternative suggestions? &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 21:18, July 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * Change all the "Priests of ...", "Clerics of ...", "Druids of ...", etc. categories to be "Worshipers of ..."
 * Keep Category:Priests for the occupation of priest.
 * Add links that use Category intersection to the "Worshipers of ..." category pages. Suggested links include "Priests of ...", "Clerics of ...", etc.
 * Eliminate the Category:Clerics by deity, Category:Druids by deity, etc. categories and replace them with Category Intersections if possible.


 * This sounds good to me. Just to clarify: a regular character would be a "worshiper of ..." and a stated priest character (occupation) would be "priest" or "priest (2e)" etc PLUS "worshiper of ..."? Artemas (talk) 23:10, July 2, 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, but note that Category:Priests (2e) is strictly for grouping the various 2nd edition subclasses and does not contain any characters directly. All characters that worship or venerate a particular deity should be placed in "Worshipers of ..." and all characters that have an occupation (other than "adventurer") should be placed in that occupation category, like "Priest" or "Innkeeper". Then things like "All priests of Ilmater" or "All clerics of Sune" can be listed using a Category Intersection.


 * It is possible to worship more than one deity, but the vast majority of characters will worship one primary deity, though they may, at times, placate someone like Umberlee for safe passage or beseech Tymora for luck. As a general rule, these situations should not be construed to mean they belong in "Worshipers of Umberlee" or "Worshipers of Tymora". &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 01:07, July 3, 2015 (UTC)


 * Take a look at the Category:Worshipers of Ilmater page for a demonstration of the category intersection links. "Saints of Ilmater" has no content because they are not categorized as just "Saints" yet. It is there to show what happens if there is no intersection. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 02:15, July 3, 2015 (UTC)


 * Wow... very cool... of course, I am always in awe of Movie's tech-magic :) - Darkwynters (talk) 03:06, July 3, 2015 (UTC)


 * More demos! Take a look at User:Moviesign/Druids by deity, User:Moviesign/Paladins by deity, and User:Moviesign/Clerics by deity. Each of these has a different style output, so if we want to use them, we need to pick a style. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 03:47, July 3, 2015 (UTC)


 * Looks great to me! Daranios (talk) 11:42, July 3, 2015 (UTC)


 * Very nice. I like the "Druide by deity" layout the best! Artemas (talk) 12:30, July 3, 2015 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, I like the Clerics by deity because it is less cluttered, more like our novel or sourcebook index, but I like Druids by deity because it is alphabetized. - Darkwynters (talk) 14:43, July 3, 2015 (UTC)