Talk:Eilistraee



Eilistraee is actually not dead. After much debate with other fans I asked the author of the book where she "died". She explained that she left loopholes preventing her death, fully. The emails are on my website eilistraee.org

The cannon books by wizards state, quite often, that a God may ONLY be killed on their own plane. The sword which "killed" Eilistraee killed Lolth's champion, Selvetarm, but he was in his own plane (Lolth's) when he died. In the Avatar set of four books, Ao binds the Gods to the mortal realms and effectively allows them to die if killed. The Gods make reference to this rule often. During the battle where Araushnee tries to kill Correlon with Eilistraee's arrow, many Gods are hit by massively powerful Godly weapons, only the fade back to their worlds.

WOTC officially mandated her death and the author was forced to comply. But, by their OWN rules and canon, she cannot be. I would maintain that she is wounded and recovering. WOTC may one day regain their senses, or not, but she cannot actually be dead based on what happened. --Lotus253 19:38, February 12, 2011 (UTC)Lotus@Eilistraee.org


 * Sadly, this is only wishful thinking - albeit well-researched wishful thinking. She could be alive, as could a number of others (Azuth comes to mind, having died in the Nine Hells). As you say, unless Wizards decides to change her status, she's going to remain dead. Cronje (talk &sdot; contribs) 21:41, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

Because WOTC may never use her again and says she is dead, it is effectively the case, but by technical game rules, and from the author who killed her, she is very much alive. If nothing more, WOTC made, in my personal opinion, an extremely bad choice in killing her. She provided a rich dynamic to Drow. Luckily, she is alive in any games DM's add her too, such as me, and the loophole remains in the very unlikely event WOTC brought her back. --Lotus253 22:18, February 12, 2011 (UTC)Lotus@Eilistraee.org

I believe Eilistraee must be dead even according to canon. Maybe Azuth is still alive and out there somewhere, that's a very good point I never thought of, but Eilistraee definitely isn't. It's like during the time of troubles, when Ao kicked all the gods out of their home planes. Once all their essence was on the Prime Material Plain, they could be easily, and more importantly, PERMANENTLY, killed. They no longer have part of themselves hidden away at home.

Now, the whole reason Eilistraee inhabited Qilue was because she lost her game with Lolth. That means she's gonna die. Kiaransalee died too, you know, and she wasn't attacked on her home plane. But she lost the game, so she got killed, admittedly through a mortal agent, but I notice you don't think SHE'S coming back. So what I believe happened to Eilistraee is that she fled her home plane, became vulnerable to attack just like all the gods did during the Time of Troubles, and died in a painfully permanent fashion. Then again, maybe her essence on her home plane got attacked and destroyed at the same time, as a result of the way their game worked, or else because of the game she became able to be killed even away from home. Maybe she sort of signed over the rights to her life and staked it as her wager in their game (that IS what it sounded like to me!) and lost her right to exist somehow. I really don't know, but either way she has to be dead.

I agree that she made the drow much more interesting, and I'm disappointed she's dead, but if that's the way it happened, just live with it. Besides, I didn't really like her so much. She was too like Lolth, with her matriarchies and the way drow males seem to be almost as abused under her as under Lolth. Ryld Argith had that complaint, if I remember correctly. He didn't see any difference between his position in a Lolthian society and with the Eilistraeeans. And Eilistraee's priestesses (sorry - no priests allowed) are obsessed with hunting down anything "evil" out of some misguided belief that it will vindicate their existence. Remember that harmless werewolf in War of the Spider Queen book 6? he wasn't hurting anyone, just wanted peace and solitude, but got killed merely for existing. That was just cruel and pointless. So although I will miss the delightfully warped war of the drow, I really believe Faerûn will be a better place for her absence. 66.241.5.38 19:18, January 30, 2012 (UTC)Eschwartz

PERMANENTLY DEAD? Like Bane and Torm were permanently dead after the avatar trilogy? WOTC made many many bad choices with 4th edition, killing Eilistraee was just one of them. She was really popular among players. It's not the fault of WOTC, they had orders from Hasbro from what I understand. Giving your customers what they want seems to be a smart business strategy. Run your campaigns however you like. I run straight 3.5, the 4th edition world is just another (ultra-vanilla) alternate prime material plane. WOTC is wising up due to poor sales, lets see what they do with the next edition of D&D. 24.199.4.206 20:33, March 27, 2012 (UTC)Noldor858

About what Eschwarz said concerning the hunting down attitude of the Eilistraeens: that's novels' wrong depiction of the goddess, both in WotSQ and LP.

According to the sourcebooks, Eilistraee's main theme is freedom of life and of self expression and acceptance of all beings who revel in life, with no discrimination or prejudice. What she teaches to her drow is that a joyful existence, different from the one they've been brainwashed into believing the only way, is possible, where all beings live in harmony, free to choose their life, their ideas and to fulfill themselves without the shackles of any pointless dogma. To do this, the Dark Maiden uses lighthearted aspects of life, like song and dance, and kindness to open drow minds, to make them understand, like a mother would do, that they have a choice and to let them find their own, spontaneous way to redemption.

This is an extremely open minded and tolerant attitude, which does not include violence at all, on any being (even the ones who may appear as evil, like werewolves, because there is hope of redemption for everyone) and it is this beautiful concept that Eilistraee is about.

In the novels, however, her followers do nothing but slaughtering everyone, which is clearly out of character. Those books offer a warped portrayal of Eilistraee, totally unfitting in many ways. Her priestess are depicted as sexist, but they shouldn't be so. The gender selective clergy is mainly due to Eilistraee being intended by the designers as a mother goddess for the drow, so that priestesses fit this flavor better than males. Authors of the books made the jump from this to OMG Eilistraee is sexist, ruining the character.

Besides the ending of LP isn't what the Dark Maiden would have done, at all. It says that she purposefully gave herself for her followers (and that's totally fitting), but what about all the other drow? By doing what she did, basically said to every other dark elf either you spontaneously redeem and become one of my follwers -yes, I don't care if you haven't ever heard of me- or I don't care about you, not to mention depriving the ones not yet born of any chance of freedom and redemption. This sacrifice thing was done just to mask the purpose of the novels: only getting rid of the drow pantheon. It's not what Eilistraee would have done. This is the whole unwilling were cast down thingy that the Dark Maiden would never even take in consideration. She can't actually 'redeem' the ones who're already seeking alternatives to Lolth, she can just help and love them. It's the others, the ones still brainwashed, that need her support the most.

Not to mention that she wouldn't even have had reasons to engage Lolth in her power games about the fate of her children. As I said she's about opposition to the stupid injustice committed on ALL the Dark Elves millenia ago and to the oppression they are shackled to now, and about offering hope of redemption and -freedom- of life to them, not about she's not about get Lolth. She doesn't care about her pretty games, and a free spirit like her would never accept to be constrained to the her mother's rules when she can keep freeing the drow without doing so. That wouldn't make much sense.

Luckily tho, it looks like the devs at WotC realized the crappy way this goddess was treated and that she and her brother gave depth to an otherwise flat and homogenous race like the drow.

One of the people who worked on the upcoming Menzoberranzan sourcebook posted this: on the Chosen of Eilistraee board.

No god is permanently dead in the Realms and, soon(probably), the Dark Maiden won't be dead at all :D

Rituals and Rites
Sorry about the multiple edits.

The 'Hunt', while not capitalized in the text is in Demihuman Deities, p. 15 in the first sentence of of the first paragraph under Holy Days/Ceremonies.

"The customary worship to the Dark Maiden is a hunt, followed by a feast and dancing, and a Circle of Song..."

Maybe it could be organized better since a Hunt is typically tied to a feast and a Circle of Song, but I wanted to draw attention that a Circle of Song and a hunt are sort of separate things.

I suppose it could be something like Customary worship service LadySilverhair (talk) 17:47, October 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hunt
 * Feast
 * Circle of Song


 * First, please don't forget to sign your posts with four tildes ( ~ ) so we know where one comment ends and the next one begins, and some indication of chronological order. Second, you might want to peruse the Forgotten Realms Wiki:3 Sentence Rule (which is more of a guideline than a rule) and keep that in mind when deciding to make something a wikilink or not. For example, if you don't think that more than 3 sentences can be written about Eilistraee's version of a celebratory hunt, then it's probably best to leave it unlinked and explain how the hunt works in this article, rather than making a separate article. Thanks for all your contributions to this topic. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 16:51, October 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * okay - thanks! LadySilverhair (talk) 17:47, October 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah, not being capitalised and not in itself special, this hunt is not really a special kind of hunt, just a generic kind of hunt. Maybe they even just go fishing? :) A discussion of the regular hunt would be best in a discussion of everyday practices and rites. For example, you could write it out like "It was customary among the faithful to worship Eilistraee through a hunt, followed by a feast with dancing, and ending in a Circle of Song, which was..." The High Hunt meanwhile is a distinct, special hunting ritual, so it could have any article on its own.
 * You could consider splitting the article into two (especially since it will get really long): one for Eilistraee as a person and character, and another for her followers as an organization. For example, see Mystra, and Ilmater and Church of Ilmater. They show good ways to to arrange this kind of information. — BadCatMan (talk) 04:30, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

Eilistraee is alive post Sundering
Eilistraee is alive post Sundering.

In Ed Greenwood's upcoming novel, Spellstorm, it is revealed that:

SPOILER

[...]Twas no easy thing, being the goddess of magic. A different deity than the rest, in a world so steeped in the Art, a divinity that had to care more for mortals, or embrace utter tyranny. And at the same time share the Weave - the Weave that was Mystra, as well as being so much more - with other deities, or what remained of them, like Eilistraee[...]

SPOILER

So, I've asked Ed Greenwood some questions about this:

SPOILER

1)Q: Does that thought (the passage about Mystra sharing the Weave with Eilistraee) refer to the present time? A: Yes, that refers to the present time.

2)Q: Are Eilistraee and Vhaeraun separated again? A: Yes, separate again.

3)Q: Did she manage to survive to the events in LP like some speculated (in a fashion similar to how Mystra did, for example) and emerge again after the Sundering (or has the Sundering simply brought her back)? A: Mortals know only of a reappearance, post-Sundering; details to be revealed, perhaps, in the fullness of time (this now 100% confirms that Eilistraee is alive in the present time).

4)Q: Also, in what condition is Eilistraee now, and what are she and her followers doing (and -since I'd like to edit the FR wiki page about her- is she now a demipower, or retained her status of lesser power)? A: Current condition? Unknown to mortals (including power level/ranking); sorry.

5)Q: Finally, where is Qilué's soul currently (since we know that the Cescent Blade couldn't destroy souls anymore, given that Cavatina survived it). A: As for the soul you mention: also unknown. My bet would be on "a voice in the Weave" (there may or may not be more on this status, if not that particular soul, in future fiction, but it's too early to say for certain).

QuestionsAnswers

SPOILER

This pretty much confirms that Eilistraee is alive and that mortals know of her reappearence, but we don't know about her current power/ranking (but we know that she is Eilistraee, the Dark Maiden again, and no longer Eilistraee, the Masked Lady). My question is, were I to edit the page according to this news, what should I put instead of dead power?

--Tsammarco (talk) 21:01, April 16, 2015 (UTC)


 * Well researched Tsammarco, though Ed is still keeping his cards close to his chest it seems. At most we can say she seems to have reappeared but as to her status/condition we don't know much else....she may not even be a god anymore (some have speculated Archfey or an aspect of mystra). Feel free to add these notes on her page if want, but remember to use the Candelekeep forum Template to reference if you do and avoid too much speculation ;) I'd leave the dead power category for now, at least until we know if her godly powers have returned too.--Eli the Tanner (talk) 22:36, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Well, Ed is holding his cards close to his chest, but Eilistraee has definitely reappeared. The way the quote from Spellstorm is phrased suggests that she is a deity, albeit very diminished in power. Archfey I could see, but aspect of Mystra I really can't, otherwise she wouldn't have been referred as other deities with whom Mystra is sharing the Weave.

Idk about Dead power, I've put ranking currently unknown, but alive post-Sundering

--Tsammarco (talk) 22:53, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Confirmation that Eilistraee (and Vhaeraun too) is alive
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19841&whichpage=13#468322

Hi again, all. Irennan, heeeere's Ed:

Communications being what they are in the Realms, with caravans bringing news and gossip and inevitable distortions as things get told and retold, most mortals can't be certain of much; they always have to trust (or not trust) retellings from afar. However, the word spreading about the return of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun comes from excited reports of mortal worshippers personally meeting MANIFESTATIONS and AVATARS of the deities; i.e. yes, Vhaeraun and Eilistraee are both "back." Now, as to whether they'll appear face to face with a given mortal in a given location in the Realms, that's a far different matter. The gods in general seem more "distant" post-Sundering, more "heard from" than "personally seen."

And there you have it. The Word of Ed, so to speak. [:)] love, THO

I've tried to edit the page, but I must have done something wrong, since the reference section is messed up and I don't know how to fix it. My sincere apologies.

Edited plagiarized passages

Plagiarized passages
I changed all the plagiarized passages that I could think of. Let me know if anything else needs to be changed. --Tsammarco (talk) 14:14, June 8, 2015 (UTC)


 * Will do, thanks. — BadCatMan (talk) 14:31, June 8, 2015 (UTC)