Talk:Supreme Throne

In the Avatar series, this plane is referred to as Pandemonium, not Limbo. ➳ Quin 23:28, June 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * See also Pandemonium (Dungeons & Dragons); this matches the description of the plane in the Avatar series. Limbo (Dungeons & Dragons) is described as a different plane. Furthermore, if Limbo was cosmologically linked with Abeir before the Spellplague, as it states in our Limbo article, how would Cyric have access to it? ➳ Quin 00:02, June 28, 2011 (UTC)

Haha, that's because because back when the Avatar series was written, Cyric's realm was in Pandemonium. This was clearly noted in On Hallowed Ground and in Faiths & Avatars. However, there was this thing called a retcon. When 3rd edition came around, Toril's cosmology was completely changed and all references to the Great Wheel cosmology were considered null and void. In the present continuity, according to the source I noted in the article, the Supreme Throne is said to have originally been called Limbo. This isn't necessarily the same as the standard Limbo that other campaign settings know.

Was this retcon a stupid idea that continues to confuse people to this day? Yes, yes it was. Does this constant retconning make this wiki an utter mess? Yes, it does. People type in bits of 2nd edition canon, 3rd edition canon, 4th edition canon, "core" canon and Realms-specific canon and we end up with the kind of confusion you note. But that's how it is, officially. So we work with it.

The standard Limbo was cosmologically linked to Toril in 2nd edition. In 3rd edition, it wasn't... except insofar that the plane that is now the Supreme Throne was evidently called Limbo in previous epochs. There was no in-game explanation for this change; it wasn't the Spellplague or the Time of Troubles - it was just the change in designer philosophy as the editions changed.

To answer your question, I'm pretty sure our Limbo article is wrong about it ever being cosmologically linked to Abeir. I see that you're the one that added that line, Quin, but you neglected to cite a source for it. Going back to the history, I see that the original editor only noted (correctly) that Limbo was part of the Planescape/2nd edition Great Wheel cosmology, but Fw190a8 edited to say it was the cosmology "prior to the Spellplague" (not exactly accurate). Then you seem to have interpreted that in light of some obscure reference in the Campaign Guide to a plane that got merged with the Elemental Chaos. This was incorrect, I'm afraid. -- Rowan Earthwood 01:20, June 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've found the reference on page 66 of the Campaign Guide to the plane from Abeir's cosmology that merged with the Elemental Chaos. There's no evidence that this plane was Limbo. Given Abeir's history with primordials and such, I think it's more likely that it was simply a plane similar to the standard 4th edition Elemental Chaos that helped rip apart and combine Toril's elemental planes. -- Rowan Earthwood 01:34, June 28, 2011 (UTC)