Talk:Dawnstone

First off, thanks for clarifying how to turn crunch like "once every turn" into Realms terminology. Also, I was attempting to not duplicate the text exactly when I described what happened to the ju-ju zombies (per the plagiarism policy of the Wiki) but if you feel using the direct words "bones and dust" doesn't count as that, that's fine.

I wasn't sure about a date for the Dawnspire's construction, but since All Things Magical said a hundred years ago and I was fairly sure the "present" was around 1372 DR at that time, I made my best guess. Putting it more vaguely in the 13th century does seem a better representation of this.

I had thought that since Lathander caused the Dawn Cataclysm, which led to the fall of Myth Drannor, that him bringing the Dawnstone for the temple to protect the city ruins was likely linked to this, but I guess you're right it can't be proven.

I had included the speculation about whether the Dawnstone survived for two reasons: because of the specific means of destruction mentioned which would obviously depend on whether the mythal was destroyed, and because of the information in Farthest Reach about the Seekers fleeing through the portal. Also, I was not certain if it was appropriate to include means of destruction since I hadn't seen it on any other artifact pages. However, if it can be, then going with that is indeed best. Not sure why you removed the bit about the shades, since it seems obvious to me followers of Shar would want to destroy an artifact of Lathander's, but very well. -NieveMac (talk) 09:11, February 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi! Thanks for querying this. I don't have a lot of time and space for explanation of my edits in the Summary, and usually hope they're self-explanatory.
 * Initially, you said every six seconds, which only applies in 3rd edition onwards. Rounds in the older editions were every minute, though I'm not certain on that. But yeah, without crunch, something that happens per round is basically at any time.
 * The plagiarism rule covers whole sentences, but repeating minor turns of phrase are exempt if there's no better way of putting something. There are few better ways of saying "bones" than "bones". :) Anyway, you said it would "dissolve into nothing", which gave the impression of the zombie entirely disappearing without a trace.
 * I don't know when Volo's Guide to All Things Magical is set, but it was published in 1996. Third edition came in 2000 or so, set in 1372 DR, while 2nd edition ended in 1370 DR. So the VGtATM would have to be a few years before, so the 1360s DR is suitable. Generally, when a source says "a hundred years ago" or "a thousand years before", it's very much a guess-timate, so roughly a hundred years, not exactly 100 years.
 * Speculating on a god's motives is probably rather too much supposition to include in an article, IMO. But, if you have some good evidence for it, you could include it in a Notes section in an Appendix (outside the main article), clarifying Lathander's previous relationship with Myth Drannor and suggesting some likely implications. Have a look at my work on Disciples of St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred for how to use notes and presenting speculation.
 * I haven't read Farthest Reach, so I don't know what happened, sorry. The sentence about the Seekers fleeing was only cited to VGtATM and GHotR, and I saw nothing about it those sources, so I removed it. It would help to be more definite about events to avoid ambiguity. For example, you could say:

In 1374 DR, Sarya Dlardrageth and her fey'ri army attacked Myth Drannor and the destroyed the Dawnspire. The Seekers of the Dawn escaped the destruction by fleeing through a portal. However, it is not known if they took the Dawnstone with them. Legend claimed it could only be destroyed when the rays of the first dawn after the mythal of Myth Drannor was destroyed fell upon it, and even with Myth Drannor's second destruction, its mythal might yet still exist.

or

In 1374 DR, Sarya Dlardrageth and her fey'ri army attacked Myth Drannor and the destroyed the Dawnspire. The Seekers of the Dawn escaped the destruction by fleeing through a portal.


 * Where the note would appear in the Appendix.
 * I've been including possible means of destruction on artifact pages I've developed from VGtATM: Death Moon Orb, Thakorsil's Seat, and the Iron Helm of Heroes. So it's probably just me doing it thus far, but lore's lore and has a place on the wiki.
 * There was no specific connection to the shades, so I removed it. You could add it back in as a note, as above.
 * There. I hope all that's helpful for you. Thanks for getting involved in the wiki. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:36, February 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * All right, thanks for that. I guess I was just being overly-careful after reading the plagiarism policy and not wanting to be penalized for violating it. You're quite right that my word choice implied something it shouldn't have.


 * Regarding All Things Magical, I scoured it as much as I could and didn't find any in-story date for its composition, so your guess based on real-world publication date works for me.


 * Thanks for the information regarding how to do notes. I'll go ahead and do that for the various bits that seem relevant and can be substantiated. I was basing the reference to Lathander and Myth Drannor on what it says about the Dawn Cataclysm, which is backed up by Faiths & Pantheons as well as the Grand History of the Realms and a couple other places. I haven't actually read Farthest Reach myself, but it was used as a reference regarding the flight through the portal on the Myth Drannor page, and this is also mentioned in GHotR I already referenced: page 155 says "1374 DR Mirtul 6: House Dlardrageth's legions destroy the Morninglord's temple in Myth Drannor, killing most of the clerics, although a few escape through a portal."


 * Your suggestions for how to speculate about the Dawnstone's continued existence, however, are quite good, and I do believe I'll incorporate them. I especially appreciate the bit from the 4th edition campaign guide about the mythal, since I have not read that sourcebook yet.


 * And okay, good to know. Personally I thought the means should be included (they do feel more like lore than crunch) but I wasn't positive.


 * Thanks for all your input! I'll get to work.--NieveMac (talk) 13:14, February 24, 2015 (UTC)