User talk:Artyom.pavlov

Welcome!
Well met, Artyom.pavlov, and welcome to the Forgotten Realms Wiki! Thank you for your edit to the Great Swamp of Rethild page. We hope you like the place and decide to stay and explore the Forgotten Realms with us.

Here are some pages that you might find helpful, that explain who we are and what we do and how we do it. You should find these a useful reference, or maybe they could give you some ideas for something to do.

It's our goal to be a complete and reliable encyclopaedia of the official Forgotten Realms in all its forms, and a valuable resource for all Realms fans, players, and dungeon masters. As such, we do not accept fan fiction, homebrew lore, and player characters. All information added to this wiki must be attributed to an official source. Information must not be copied from sourcebooks and novels. Please always give a source for your information, and explain what you've done in the "summary" box.

We hope you enjoy editing here. Please sign your messages on Talk and Forum pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, please leave a message on my talk page or ask any of the administrators about things.

Again, welcome! Happy scribing!

— BadCatMan (talk) 14:22, August 12, 2019 (UTC)

Welcome & Advice
Hi! Welcome to the wiki. I've followed up on a number of your edits to fix things up and use our citation templates, such as Cite book/Plague of Spells/MMP. You can see how it works here. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:43, August 13, 2019 (UTC)


 * Hey, thanks. I saved the template. (i was using the "citation" function embedded in the edit window.) Do i need to cite the exact page or chapter for each? Artyom.pavlov (talk) 15:10, August 14, 2019 (UTC)


 * I don't know what citation function that is, but the Visual Editor is, frankly, absolutely useless for this wiki, especially with citation templates. Please have a look at the Source Editor, which will show you how all the wiki markup works, without breaking things. :)


 * For more information about citations, see Help:Citing sources.


 * Yes, please include the page number so others can find the information as well. Chapter numbers are also useful to include in novels.


 * Good night from me, and good luck with any more edits you make. The other admins will be available to help you if you have queries or issues. — BadCatMan (talk) 15:44, August 14, 2019 (UTC)


 * Yeah i've figured the source works much better (especially after I try to edit and accidentally delete half the work done, reset, and abandon the edit out of frustration). Thanks for being helpful and patient while I learn the engine. Artyom.pavlov (talk) 16:01, August 14, 2019 (UTC)

Warning on copied text
Hi. Thanks for your work, but please try to rephrase the text further away from the source material. While there has been some changes, it is still close enough to the original text that it can be seen as plagiarism. For example, from Damien Morienus, "They sucked the life energy from the mage, causing him to become an undead crypt thing." is little different from "The demons sucked the life energy from the mage, causing him to become an undead crypt thing." There are many lines like this. Perhaps you could consider more alternate words and phrases, restructuring how the information is presented, and changing the focus. For example, "Damien was attacked in his meditation chamber, with the demons draining his life until he became a crypt thing." — BadCatMan (talk) 08:41, November 26, 2019 (UTC)

Apologies, and it won't happen again. Will make sure to paraphrase going forward. Artyom.pavlov (talk) 14:58, November 26, 2019 (UTC)

Hey BacCatMan, just wanted to flag something for you that i caught. The edits that list page number in Plague of spells edits I've made are using ebook pages, which means they need to be changed as the page count changes with the font size. BUT! the chapter number is accurate. Apologies for the inconsistency. Unless someone wants to handle, i will take care of that once i get a moment (i do edits from that book while  at work), and probably once i am writing the synopsis of the book.

Artyom.pavlov (talk) 04:35, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

Edited Damien Moreinous page. please let me know if further rephrasing is needed. Artyom.pavlov (talk) 00:07, January 20, 2020 (UTC)

Rutterkin and Greetings
Heyo. A few things. One, as the guy whose been cleaning up most of the fiendish pages, thnks for adding and contributing (especially the dretch picture I always forgot about and finally adding a rutterkin page). The other thing was a brief bit of advice on the purpose of certain tabs. Description is physical description, not personality. You add personality for that. Abiltiies and Combat are typically separated. When you add in specific individuals you add a notable individuals, headline, rather than put them under society.

Cheers.Vegepygmy (talk) 03:15, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

Noted. yeah this is still WIP page, just adding and editing all the lore i can find the first step. Editing and making presentable after. I hate missing thing so i go book by book to get things added before diving into granularity (or letting someone who is good at editing making changes.) ... i think Rutterkin is done now, just needs some edits.

Artyom.pavlov (talk) 04:03, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

Outside of seperating ecology (half of it belongs in history) then no you're good.Vegepygmy (talk) 04:15, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

Does that work? There's not much to add really from what i could find... Artyom.pavlov (talk) 04:26, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

also i added Vorr page today, in care you need to add them to the fiends category.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 04:44, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

Image Uploads
Your last several images do not have the required Information template filled in, including mandatory source and licensing information. Please go back to all your images and provide the missing information and add categories or else the images may be deleted. See File:Anatomy of the dretch.jpg for an example of how it is supposed to be done, and let me know if you need any assistance. ~ Lhynard (talk) 20:09, January 19, 2020 (UTC)


 * Hiya, i updated the images with the info i knew. Artyom.pavlov (talk) 00:06, January 20, 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for looking into this so quickly! For the The Accursed Tower ones, go ahead and use the Fairuse tag for licensing. ~ Lhynard (talk) 17:42, January 20, 2020 (UTC)
 * Done! Artyom.pavlov (talk) 20:03, January 20, 2020 (UTC)
 * Done! Artyom.pavlov (talk) 20:03, January 20, 2020 (UTC)

Novel Indices
It's exciting that you are going through and adding a synopsis and index to Plague of Spells. However, could you please follow the index format used on this page: Mistress of the Night (novel)? We have a special template (P) that automatically creates an alphabetical index with page numbers when  is used somewhere on the page. Also, use the  character so that the index does not take up so much space.

Thanks for the great work so far!

~ Lhynard (talk) 19:13, January 30, 2020 (UTC)

Got it. The index is complete so I will edit now!

Artyom.pavlov (talk) 19:20, January 30, 2020 (UTC)

Quote Fix
There seems to be something wrong with the quote on the Asp article. It's missing words, or punctuation, or both. Could you take a look, please? &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 22:07, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

crap, will do so now. Artyom.pavlov (talk) 22:18, February 17, 2020 (UTC) "Even though she had used the same words, the spell wasn’t working as it had when Maligor cast it. This darkenbeast was too big and was retaining many of its weasel featuresits hind legs, ears, stubby tail, and round, frightened eyes. Its skin was covered with festering boils, as if the thing were diseased. For a moment, the naga considered calling for the Red Wizard, hoping he could correct her miscast magic. Then she realized he would be angry because she had cast a spell he had not yet taught her." looks fine? Artyom.pavlov (talk) 22:21, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

Lake Umber
Lake Umber is mentioned on pp. 151, 158, 169, 170 in Unapproachable East, as well as on p. 42 of the Campaign Guide included in the Spellbound boxed set. The lake can also be seen on the Spellbound map. Happy scribing! --Ir&#39;revrykal (talk) 09:01, February 20, 2020 (UTC) awesomundo! hope its enough for an entry. Red Magic has little to no info on it! Artyom.pavlov (talk) 09:13, February 20, 2020 (UTC)

Pointers
Hi! I wanted to point out some corrections I've been making to your articles. Most recently, the Master Mariners' Guild. You can see my revisions here (I know, I made a typo, I fixed it).

First, apostrophes. There are two kinds, which I'll call curly (’) and straight ('). They're more noticeable in the editing window. Curly apostrophes are used in certain fonts, word-processing programs, and books. Straight apostrophes tend to appear in coding, such as on the wiki. If you copy a name from the book or Word document, it may carry a curly apostrophe. However, if you type in the name, it'll use the straight apostrophe. The wiki code can't distinguish these, so Master Mariners’ Guild and Master Mariners' Guild point to different pages. Please try to check and use only the straight apostrophe.

Second, once you've made a reference like you can repeat it thereafter with just (note the extra slash). This reduces length and improves readability of wiki code.

Third, we tend to avoid including nicknames and titles in article names for characters, hence I changed Jheldarr “Stormrunner” Boaldegg (also a case of curly quotes) to just Jheldarr Boaldegg and Jheldarr "Stormrunner" Boaldegg where appropriate.

I hope these help. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:22, March 12, 2020 (UTC)


 * Hey thanks for the apostrophes clarification, never honestly noticed.


 * References - THANK YOU! the extra slash is why I couldn't make it work on my own. Will make things easier for everyone going forward.


 * The nicknames - got it. Actually related question: I started putting info together for Eidola of Neverwinter entry. Should I keep of Neverwinter part? or just use the first name?


 * Artyom.pavlov (talk) 01:32, March 12, 2020 (UTC)


 * I'd say just use "Eidola" for simplicity. Her parents probably didn't name her "of Neverwinter", after all. It's only used twice in the book and seems more a way of filling out her title. And there isn't another Eidola on the wiki.


 * BTW, I indented your post and mine, it's a common convention to distinguish messages on wiki Talk pages. — BadCatMan (talk) 03:05, March 12, 2020 (UTC)

A Useful Link
Hello, thought I'd mention this, but as you seem to have been doing quite a few Fiend Folio 1st edition images and creatures recently, I thought you might find this link useful. A while back, someone started some sort of online blog featuring the Fiend Folio among other things, and the images are pretty high quality. No worries if you don't want to use the link. https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?search/882945/&page=7 (Just copy and paste, as far as I'm aware. Sorry if it doesn't work, I'm not very good with computers generally).

The other quick thing is that I'd appreciate it if you used the system when uploading and image rather than simply adding brackets, it just looks better usually.Jacktoland (talk) 08:57, March 22, 2020 (GMT)

With hindsight, this one is probably preferable. Just search under the user Leonaru to  get images from the Fiend Folio.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?search/

Utter East
Hi! I wanted to say I'm glad you're working on the Double Diamond Triangle Saga. I've read the first and wanted to cover the others for my own Utter East project, but the original books are impossible to find and they've always been so mysterious to the fandom. To maybe help support your additions when you get there, I've returned to the Utter East myself, back to covering the Blood & Magic game that was the basis for the DDTS, Faces of Deception, and other hints of the region.

If you have the DDTS books, have you seen this Utter East map? It first appeared on the Candlekeep website, it's floated around the Internet for ages, but no one can confirm which novel or whatever it comes from. It's not in the original Faces of Deception like some claim, I just checked that. Is it one of the DDTS books?

BTW, there is some bad news: the DDTS novels were sneakily declared non-canon, that is, "Apocrypha / Volo's Attempts at Fiction", at this chronology on the WotC site: "Presenting . . . Seven Millennia of Realms Fiction". Ironically, that was back in 2001, before Khelben died in 1374 in Blackstaff published in 2006, which contradicted him being alive in The Abduction in 1377. I think we can neglect that, that is, the DDTS novels are still worth us covering, regardless of their status, and we don't know which bits are false. At some point, I'll create a stock note to explain their apocryphal status to explain it. — BadCatMan (talk) 06:04, April 21, 2020 (UTC)


 * Heya, I actually have only 3 first novels in my collection - still hunting down the rest. Yeah, that map IS from DDTS, book 3 The Mercenaries. I think the biggest problem with these novels is the year. These books take place after Blackstaff's death, after Aleena's departure for the planes, and right before Paladinson's death. I also noticed quite a few typos in names in the books - basically, I am sure the editors were asleep during this project, even though Ed Greenwood was one of the authors. Artyom.pavlov (talk) 12:26, April 21, 2020 (UTC)

Dragonfire
Hi! I just finished adding all the expansions and other minutia to the Dragonfire page. If you'd like, could you finish up the index? I haven't added characters or items. No rush! --Regis87 (talk) 15:55, May 16, 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. i can start working on items tomorrow. There not a lot of named characters in it and character cards are just class and race. I will check the adventure summaries to make sure nothing is lost. You did a great job with the page!Artyom.pavlov (talk) 20:27, May 16, 2020 (UTC)

Category Question
What is the evidence that Giogioni Wyvernspur lived in Immersea? And I presume you meant to add the same category to Cat (person)? The text of the article should explain that they lived in that location. Passing through doesn't count, they have to have spent significant time there, or be likely to be found there. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 02:40, May 20, 2020 (UTC)
 * The Wyvern's Spur book (ch 1 + the final chapter). Redstone Castle in Immersea as per Azure Bonds and The Wyvern's Spur. The book ends in the marriage, Cat lives with Giogi.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 02:45, May 20, 2020 (UTC)

Fair Use Images
I edited and replaced the File:Immersea Map - The Wyvern's Spur.png you uploaded because it was too good to claim Fair Use. It had three strikes against it: As a general rule, if the image is so good that people don't have to buy the book, then we can't really claim Fair Use. Sometimes it is a gray area that we have to navigate, but that's a good place to start. &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 22:48, May 20, 2020 (UTC)
 * 1) It was a complete map, not an excerpt.
 * 2) The map key generally must be removed because that is copyrighted text.
 * 3) The image was waaaay too high a resolution, especially for web purposes.
 * And there i was trying to photoshop and straighten the scan's imperfection from a bent book page lol. Thanks for letting me know, will edit going forward.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 23:03, May 20, 2020 (UTC)
 * Honestly, sad we can't preserve these old novel maps. The books have been out of print for decades, ebooks do not come with them, and of course, they can't be on the audiobook version. the only way of getting hold of them is the grey area of buying used books for a couple of bucks... sigh.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 23:08, May 20, 2020 (UTC)

Slack
Greetings! I have been empowered to invite you to the Forgotten Realms Wiki Slack community, an informal chat group of FRW admins and regular editors. If you are interested, please fill out https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfoVCqUNSPCKTp77IxhwMDyIQ4UGVoB1AP0MM15agNUZsU94Q/viewform and leave your email address so that I can send you an invite. Your email address will not be shared with anyone except Slack. There are no fabulous benefits for joining, and certainly no penalties for declining, we just talk now and then. Hope to see you soon! :) &mdash;Moviesign (talk) 15:53, July 18, 2020 (UTC)
 * Woof, unexpected. that's awesome!Artyom.pavlov (talk) 17:18, July 18, 2020 (UTC)

DELFEN
I want inform you that Delfen Yellowknife was a duplicate page of Delfen Ondabarl
 * Thx, i'll merge them later tonight. Artyom.pavlov (talk) 17:28, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

The Mercenaries
You plan to finish to add more members of the Mercenaries after Kurthe Lornar???
 * Eventually. For now I can only add Brinda as he died in the following book and her story is over. For the, rest - need to continue reading/indexing the series. Why? Artyom.pavlov (talk) 19:55, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

Really simply because I'm curious about this story (some years ago I had searched about but found little info in my country) and I hope you continue when you have all the info. User:Unknown user 11
 * yeah, def will be adding more down the road.Artyom.pavlov (talk) 23:27, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Urds/Dragonwrought kobolds
Hello can we discuss how these races are connected? I have cited how WotC seem to be treating them as the same. The Grand History of the Realms pg 9-10 says the Urds were winged kobolds that had dragon ancestry, & the first urd was a dragonwrought kobold. Both terms refer to the same creature. I made a number of edits to the Urd page that you have rolledback, but I gave citations for all my edits & don't understand why they were removed. Can you backup your decision with sources please? BlackRamSage (talk) 13:44, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Monstrous Compendium Vol 2 p133 - "These aggressive, fying humanoids are distantly related to kobolds... Urds speak their own language, as well as kobold, and a smatteringvof common."
 * Drizzt DoUrden's Guide to Underdark p30"Urds, relatives of kobolds with leathery, batlike wings, are largely unknown in the Underdark.A few tribes were once found dwelling in great chasms beneath the earth"
 * Demihuman Deities p78 "and the other goblinkin deities (those of rhe ores, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, kobolds, and urds)"
 * Elminster Ecologies Appendix II Serpent Hills p10 "The only other intelligent, social creatures found in the hills are urds, winged relatives of kobolds. These creatures, which like regular kobolds are intermediary between mammals and reptiles, are found in small, familial tribes."

+ a bunch more. Urds are a separate species that live among urds. Dragonwrought kobolds are normal kobolds who are born with wings. Firstly, even if the fist urds were dagonwrought, they are a separate subspecies as this is dated to -24500 DR. By 14 and 15 century they have been clearly split into 2 distinct subspecies. In my opinion the most thing you can do is leave a note in history that they in -24500 they split from dragonwrought kobolds. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 14:01, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I don't see where we are in conflict from those quotes, but first can I say that 90% of what added pertaing to Urds I cited from 5e? I guess where we disagree is with the one line I wrote saying urds were also called dragonwrought. So can we revert everything but that line? BlackRamSage (talk) 14:18, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I see your point. We will clean it up and add back parts that are applicable in a bit. All the things you added are still there if you look at the edit history, nothing is deleted. Keep an eye open for the edit notification and we'll take it from there. Regardless, thanks for bringing this part up about them sharing ancestry, you found a good bit of lore. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 14:32, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for looking it over. I was trying to sort out which kobolds were the ones with wings & why & got bogged down with all the reading. Urd & dragonwrought just seem essentially the same to me. Like how dragonborn of Abeir & Toril are essentially the same being.


 * In 5e urds are just kobolds with wings, sometimes seen as a blessing. They seem to be rare births in the tribe, just as the dragonwrought are described in 3e
 * In 3e the first dragonwrought are kobolds with more awakened dragon qualities from mating with dragons, allowing them to grow wings. These become known as urds.
 * In 3e modern day rare kobold eggs were still hatched as dragonwrought, which was taken as proof of dragon heritage


 * I don't think the dragonwrought term has shown up in 5e yet, & I don't see it being treated as distinct from an urd in any material from 3e onwards. Even saying it is a relative of a kobold makes sense, it is a kobold, but maybe its great grandfather was also a green dragon. If there was an isolated tribe of just urds out there that had been cut off genetically from the rest of kobolds for 25,000 years then I get your point.


 * In that case I would consider them distinct. As far as stats go, in 5e urds are identical to kobolds but gain flying & +1 dex. In 3e they are the same as kobolds but swap the humanoid type for dragons, get a minor +2 to skill depending on dragon heritage, & are able to fly eventually.


 * Narratively & thematically they seem to be the same thing even though their game rules are a bit different from changing editions over the decades.
 * Also interesting was 3e states kobolds were created by a green dragon as the first dragonspawn. In 4e+ Tiamat is creating dragonspawn again & the greenspawn sneak looks & behaves very similar to a larger kobold. BlackRamSage (talk) 15:59, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Well FR wiki is edition agnostic so we dont prioritize editions, rather compiling the flow of info so it makes sense. The main point stands, urds are established as a separate "ethnicity" or subspecies that has its own language and live in urd tribes vs wroughts that were introduced in 3e as special kobolds with wings. And dragonborn of Abier and Toril are two distinct "ethnicities" too. Bahamut Dragonborn of 3e and the regular ones that were brought from Abier.
 * A lot of 4e muddles up the cannon as they for some reason decided to reinvent the wheel. But 4e inconsistencies can be explained with "4e basic world is not Toril but Nentir Vale" so bad lore can be banished there. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 16:11, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * All urd, kobold, & dragonwrought speak Common & Draconic as far as I can tell. Can you cite where urds speak a distinctive language? BlackRamSage (talk) 16:33, 30 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Monstrous Compendium Vol 2 p133 - i have the quote in my first response. -16:42, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Arcanaloths
Are you kidding? Akin and Shemeska are the most famous Arcanaloths in D&D, seriously. What citations do you want, wikipedia? They were added in Planescape but they are mentioned in many regular D&D products too, including of latest Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes that had a pre-word by Shemeska (who had it delivered to the editor).


 * I know you didn't ask me, but you need to cite sources so that people know who these characters are from. For all the average random knows you made these lads up. Normally the format goes (look at this in the source code). Then if you want to ctie again, use the short hand like this  with the / near the end.Vegepygmy (talk) 23:51, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Vegepygmy is correct. All additions to the Forgotten Realms wiki need to be cited. You can see how it's done here Forgotten Realms Wiki:Help-Citing sources. Additionally, Shemeshka, from a quick search I did, has no connections to the Realms and appeared in Planescape materials only. If you know of their appearances in the FR publications, they would need to be cited as you add info about them to the Arcanaloth page. Artyom.pavlov (talk) 23:58, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I have no idea how to add sources. Pretty much every other wiki I edited never had such convoluted systems. Anyway Shemeska is in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes (5E) in the preface, page 5, or at least a letter from her to the one who got the book published. Sorry but I was under the impression Planescape IS a part of the Realms as Sigil is a part of the same multiverse that exists in Faerun and it is visited and touched upon in many adventures.
 * By that logic, virtually every D&D property is part of the Forgotten Realms. We try to cover only those parts that directly relate to the Realms. For example, we cover the parts of Planescape that have been visited or referenced in Realms sources. This is a general rule but does not tend to be an absolute one. As for sourcing, the fact that this wiki has a robust citation system is definitely a good thing. The fact that other wikis do a worse job is hardly an argument. For more help on how to cite sources, see Forgotten Realms Wiki:Help-Citing sources. Ir&#39;revrykal (talk) 11:00, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Many wikis require sources. All wikis should, in our opinions. Our system may be odd to you, and certainly different wikis use different systems, but that is not remotely unexpected. (All wikis, FWIW, do use the  markup. That's a standard part of MediaWiki and has nothing at all to do with us. We simply use templates to standardize the content of the refs, so that all references look the same format.) If one edits a wiki, she or he should make every effort to understand the reference policies before making additions, or one can simply ask for help. That's fine too.


 * But, as Artie noted, Shemeska has no relevance to the Realms to the best of my knowledge. Nor is Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes a book about the Realms. If Shemeska is said somewhere to have any influence in the Realms at all, then it would be fine to provide details from MToF. Yes, Sigil is in the same multiverse of the Realms, and Sigil has many connections and influences on and by the Realms. This wiki's Sigil page might even mention Shemeska, if he is important to understanding that city, but I see nothing notable about him that has anything to do with the world of Toril.


 * ~ Lhynard (talk) 17:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorcerers (2e)
The Sorcerers (2e) category is specifically for the Zakharan Sorcerer (kit) which has nothing to do with the standard "sorcerer." So I can rename the current Sorcerers (2e) category to Zakharan Sorcerers or something like that ... or better yet a new category could be made for the single 2e sorcerer that is on this wiki.Artemaz (talk) 17:04, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Good catch. I think a new cat would be much easier done, not many vanilla sorcerers in 2e. Artyom.pavlov (talk) 17:34, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll just move all of the Zakharan sorcerers over to a new "Zakharan Sorcerers" category since the naming makes more sense that way.Artemaz (talk) 18:02, 17 June 2021 (UTC)