Talk:Graz'zt

Too much from Wikipedia
This is an almost word-for-word copy from the Wikipedia article on Graz'zt. Needs a major rewrite. --Ebakunin 20:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Slap on the wikipedia template (Template:Wikipedia) Zerak talk 20:31, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I think this page should explain why Graz'zt is listed as one of the Lords of the Nine, why he is a former archdevil, why he is formerly of LE alignment, etc.--82.5.43.61 23:25, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Referenced now. I don't feel like I have the time explain why at the moment (I'm working on other projects) but I hope to get around to it eventually (or maybe someone else will). It's from the 4th edition Manual of the Planes, p. 131. And it doesn't seem to violate previous canon, the way that Orcus being an ex-primordial violates his origin as a human, so though it's core there's no reason not to include it.
 * Hope that makes things clear. Niirfa-sa 00:22, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Well it does differ from previous cannon, as does much of the 4th Edition's rewrite.

In the Dragon Magazine 360, Graz'zt, the Dark Prince, Demonicon of Iggwilv, as well as previous sources, he is listed as the Son of the Demoness Pale Night, he was born a demon, of an unknown father. While it has been theorized Asmodeous could be his father, before 4th ed there has never been mention of grazzt as a lord of the Nine, or ever being classified as devil at all. Assuming 4th is also canon, then perhaps he was indeed a devil born of a union of pale night and Asmodeous, it certainly put an intresting spin on the origin of the Tanari subspecies fo demon, but it does seem to deviate from previous cannon...

I suggest reading http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drigg/20071024, as it has much "current" information on Graz'zt, and is more definitive that the 4th ed Manual of the Planes. I guess it boils down to what is considered cannon, the first 3 editions, or the 4th ed rewrite... I guess its up to individual DM's to decide.

Sadujs Dragon 01:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hm, that's interesting material I hadn't read previously. However, I don't see how it conflicts with the 4e canon, given that it does mention Asmodeus as a potential father (something I hadn't thought of!). As you say, it's possible that Graz'zt was a bizarre demon/devil hybrid (something I've never heard of previously). The information from the source should be incorporated into the article, however. Niirfa-sa 02:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Well "canon" in respect to the question if Graz'zt is or once was a Lord of Nine (assumedly refering to the rulers of the 9 hells) before 4e rules.

A large amount of information is also available on Graz'zt and his triple Realm in the April 2006 WotC 3.5 Campaign Adventure "Expedition to the Demonweb Pits" Chapter 5, Zelatar, City of Demons, pages 82-99

Sadujs Dragon 10:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I just expanded the history section, hopefully the current edit adresses both theories satisfactorally. 158.125.92.75 15:32, 19 May 2009 (UTC)