Talk:Great Wheel cosmology

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In Game Reason for Change from 2e Cosmology to 3e Cosmology
Hey, I just made my first edit, and it was deleted within minutes. You guys (specifically, Moviesign) are on top of it!

Yet your article is mistaken. Did you even read my text? Your "Note 3" says "No in-game explanation was given for the change [from 2e to 3e cosmology], which shifted the realms of many deities around". This is incorrect.

There was an in-game explanation. The events of Die, Vecna, Die! were officially and explicitly written to serve as the in-game explanation for why the 2e Cosmology (Great Wheel) changed into the 3e "Cosmology of Cosmologies" (such as the World Tree). (Emphasis mine):

"Even with Vecna's removal, his time in the crux effected change in superspace. Though the Lady of Pain attempts to heal the damage, the turmoil spawned by Vecna's time in Sigil cannot be entirely erased. Some Outer Planes drift off and are forever lost, others collide and merge, while at least one Inner Plane runs "aground" on a distant world of the Prime. Moreover, the very nature of the Prime Material Plane itself is altered. Half-worlds like those attached to Tovag Baragu multiply a millionfold, taking on parallel realism in what was before a unified Prime Material Plane. The concept of alternate dimensions rears its metaphorical head, but doesn't yet solidify, and perhaps it never will. New realms, both near and far, are revealed and realms never previously imagined make themselves known. '''Entities long thought lost emerge once more, while other creatures, both great and small, are inexplicably eradicated. Some common spells begin to work differently. The changes do not occur immediately, but instead are revealed during the subsequent months. However, one thing remains clear: Nothing will ever be the same again."''

Shannon Appelcline, an official historian for WotC, in his WotC-authorized product history says:

"Vecna’s efforts also apparently do some real damage to the Great Wheel: “Some Outer Planes drift off and are forever lost, others collide and merge, while at least one Inner Plane runs ‘aground’ on a distant world of the Prime. Moreover, the very nature of the Prime Material Plane itself is altered…” Many take this as the explanation for the relatively minor cosmological changes from 2e to 3e—much as the Avatar trilogy (1989) explained changes in the 2e Forgotten Realms and WG8: Fate of Istus (1989) did the same for Greyhawk."

I mean, what more do you want? Why delete this research?

Whillosophy (talk) 05:20, December 2, 2018 (UTC)


 * Moviesign has already undone his removal, before you made your post here. Moviesign noted in his last edit: "I changed my mind and restored this edit. However, I'd like to see a more thorough explaination of the World Tree or ties to FR thru Planescape." It seems to be unclear how these changes happen yet the Great Wheel remains unchanged in Core 3e and if these are indeed meant to produce the World Tree or not. In any case, there's no need to be snarky about it. — BadCatMan (talk) 05:55, December 2, 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for responding BadCatMan - I hadn't seen Moviesign's re-reversion or comment. You/we have a great wiki here, which I've gotten a lot out of, and so I apologize for the snarky tone. Yes, the Great Wheel remained the cosmology of Greyhawk (Core 3e), yet it was changed too - the Demiplane of Shadow became a full-blown Plane of Shadow, which was now a transitive plane between cosmologies; plus all the other revisions in the properties of the specific planes which appeared in the 3e MotP.