Talk:Hlaavin

Hi everyone. I have a doubt. "In 1349 DR, the ulitharid Thalynsar sent Hlaavin to Waterdeep as leader of a druuth, a band of doppelgangers sent by illithids to infiltrate enemy cities. Soon after, however, Ch'Chitl suffered a crisis caused by the killing of the elder brain by a githyanki party in 1362." But... in other pages, such as "Ch'Chitl" and "Aulagol", said attack to the Elder Brain is said to be happened in mid-13th century, around 1250 DR. Please help! Do you now anything about this matter? Thank you --LylaNikker (talk) 10:05, January 7, 2018 (UTC)


 * The person who wrote these articles had a limited understanding of English and the text, and mostly like introduced their misinterpretations. I'll check over the sourcebooks and correct these. The attack on the elder brain definitely happened in 1250 DR, anyway. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:45, January 7, 2018 (UTC)


 * Nope, it's more complicated than that: Cloak & Dagger and Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark say the elder brain died in 1362 DR, while Underdark and The Grand History of the Realms say it died in 1250 DR. These seem irreconcilable, so we have to adopt the more recently published date of 1250 DR. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:05, January 7, 2018 (UTC)


 * For the record, City of Splendors: Waterdeep uses the 1362 DR date for the Unseen. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:56, January 7, 2018 (UTC)


 * In Brian James's original Grand History (the unofficial one) this particular entry is one of his 'best judgement' dates because he couldn't find a precise one himself. Seems they just ran with it when they put out the official version instead of looking in other sources to confirm - I think that's how a lot of the mistakes that made their way into that book got published. -hashtalk 15:44, January 7, 2018 (UTC)


 * My vote is that we should put a note of this probable error in TGHotR and go with the 1362 date. ~ Lhynard (talk) 17:08, January 7, 2018 (UTC)


 * Tracking the error through... The event is clearly dated to 1362 in C&D, DDGttUD, and supported by the Unseen entry in City of Splendors (boxed set) and likely wherever the Unseen originated. Then Underdark outright changed it to both "nearly a hundred years ago" or "more than one hundred years ago". For A Grand History, Brian James only looked at Underdark and set it to circa 1250 DR, then The Grand History set it at exactly 1250 DR. (TGHotR is deeply limited by the limits of Brian's original research.)
 * Unfortunately, it's impossible to suggest the githyanki waited 112 years before striking, or the elder brain took 112 years to die, the early descriptions make clear it all happened in 1362 DR.
 * Our Canon policy suggests we choose the latest source, but I think the two latest sources are unreliable in this case. If it just affected Ch'Chitl, it wouldn't be a big problem, but the date has ramifications for the Unseen and Waterdeep. The 4e FRCG is no help, of course, it completely changed Ch'Chitl and doesn't mention the Unseen. I also vote for the 1362 date – it's better supported by the other lore and more integral to other histories. — BadCatMan (talk) 06:19, January 8, 2018 (UTC)