Talk:Crystal Spire

Not a question, just a note for whoever could read this article and compare it to Planar traits on the 3.5 SRD: "static" is not listed among the "time" traits of a Plane, it's listed among the "morphic" traits of a Plane. This made me confused at first. However, reading the description in Player's Guide to Forgotten Realms, I think the game designers intended for the Plane to be Timeless, the manual says something like "Static: the static nature of Fugue Plane allows the devils to torment petitioners without ever ending their pain" but the "static" morphic trait is not about that. From SRD: "Static: These planes are unchanging. Visitors cannot affect living residents of the plane, nor objects that the denizens possess." If the Fugue Plane was indeed morphically static, the devils (who are visitors) wouldn't be able to torture souls (who are residents), in my reading. This could have changed by 1479 DR since the "Kelemvor's Agreement" mentioned in the novel The Edge of Chaos says souls could reside in the city for up to a tenday before a divine servant came to collect them. Just my piece of mind. Am I missing something? 93.66.86.131 18:54, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Rewriting
I believe some of this article needs to be rewritten so as to incorporate the City of Judgement and City of the Dead/Strife as one location. This article uses as passage on page 20 of the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide to differentiate the two:

"Most humans believe the souls of the recently deceased are spirited away to the Fugue Plane, where they wander the great City of Judgment, often unaware they are dead...The truly false and faithless are mortared into the Wall of the Faithless, the great barrier that bounds the City of the Dead, where their souls slowly dissolve and begin to become part of the stuff of the Wall itself."

However page 259 of theForgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd edition states the Wall of the Faithless is found within the City of Judgement:

"They form a living wall around the City of Judgment, held together by a supernatural greenish mold. This mold prevents them from escaping the wall and eventually breaks down their substance until the soul and its consciousness are dissolved."

Additionally, the Wall of the Faithless was also included in the City of Strife, according to page 3 of Faiths & Avatars:

"They are formed into a living wall around the City of Strife—Kelemvor, the new lord of the dead, may soon rename it—in the realm of the dead in Oinos in the Gray Waste and left there until they dissolve."

Essentially I believe all three terms refer to the same city. The location of that city changes depending on the model of the cosmologies, but that can be easily explained. Ruf (talk) 13:34, 19 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I would tend to agree, but I don't know what's actually on the referenced p. 20 if the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide? Does it mention both cities as separate locations or not? Faiths & Avatars does mention the Fugue Plain as separate from Bone Castle. To my knowledge the name "City of Judgement" does not appear in 2nd edition.
 * To me that raises the indepent question if there is any more information on the Fugue Plain in 2nd edition/the Great Wheel cosmology, and what conclusions we could draw from that as to the relation with the Fugue Plane of 3rd/4th edition. Interestingly I've found one mention on p. 47 of the Waterdeep adventure, in a monster description of all places, where its called the Fugue Plain of Hades, where the souls of the False and Faithless wait. That does not make things entirely clear, but to the likeliest interpretation would be that it's the Realms-related area of Hades surrounding Myrkul's Realm of the Dead, but seems to have much the same function as the later Fugue Plane. Daranios (talk) 15:24, 22 October 2022 (UTC)