Talk:Kara-Tur

My GOD this article is ugly *twitches* Zerak-Tul 03:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have attempted to clean this article up as best I can. The main problems were caused by copying directly from Wikipedia, and the out-of-game stance the article took. Fw190a8 02:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Kara-Tur&action=edit

To do list
There is still quite a lot of work required as a result of the cleanup of this article. Please cross these off as necessary!

Locations

 * Summary and main article for Kozakura
 * Summary and main article for Malatra
 * Summary and main article for T'u Lung
 * Summary and main article for Wa

List of source material
Write List of source material on Kara-Tur

Prestige classes

 * Write articles for each prestige class
 * There are some further prestige classes commented out in the wiki code that need checking

I added a bit on the page for Shou Lung; it was from wikipedia but at least its something. Should we be including references to real-world countries though? Johnnyriot999 08:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Old Wikipedia data

 * Because it would too much work for me alone;
 * Because I worked so much on the Wikipedia entries;
 * Because I believe my intense researches are still of use (especially the labourously collected external links);
 * Because I do not know enough of the forgottenrealms Wikia lore to dare or wish to intervene directly anymore,

I just paste in the permalink of what I believe to be most exhaustive Wikipedia entry on the topic:

Most complete permalink for Kara-Tur

(starting point: Geographical index of Toril on 18th of March 2007)

Could some kind soul take care of extracting the data somewhere it would not be deleted again because of “lack of notability”? Note that a lot of content may be duplicate and also has to be rewritten. Some link shouls also be checked (think archive.org] if nothing else), Wizards of the Coast not being that serious with permanency of data.

David Latapie (✒ | @) 12:41, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Fanonicity
Kara-tur Map at the top contains Fanon.
 * What is Fanon?--192.44.63.165 11:38, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * From TFWiki: "[Fanon] refers to so-called "facts" that a significant number of fans think are true, but for which there is no evidence in any official material. "


 * Or fanon can be fan-made lore that many fans accept, either believing it to be canon, or just because they like it.
 * In any case, all the maps on this page currently come from popular fan mapmaker Markustay, here. We've generally accepted them for their high quality and accuracy, with his permission, but try not to let some of his non-canon additions slip it. It's a bit difficult rooting them out though. — BadCatMan (talk) 08:14, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, be sure to check Mark's maps for canonicity as he likes to merge aspects from other game worlds into his FR maps. I recently came across some other fan-made maps that are also top quality bon't don't seem to include any fanon. I'll upload them in a bit. -hashtalk 14:33, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Overhaul
I've started work outlining an overhaul for the Kara-Tur article. The article as it stands is too verbose in the areas that it has, and completely lacking content otherwise. I plan to include new sections, like how they are in typical wikipedia-style continent articles, such as demographics, history, geography and climate, economy, definition and boundaries, and culture. These will all eventually have their own respective full articles that will be linked to, but initially they will be dead links.

As this little project goes forward, please reply to this topic with any questions/comments/concerns. I shouldn't need much help, but if you already have work done, we should definitely collaborate to save time.

As a person who lives for lore, content is important to me, but also accessibility. I aim for the pages I edit to have just enough information to be convenient and informative, with the option to view more if desired. Yes, this leads to more work and more articles, but there is a boat-load of information to be recorded. Even for a small topic like the currency of Kara-Tur could easily fill a small article of its own, so that is the intention. As a DM, having quick access to short info and quick access to detailed info is important for making a good story.

Let me know if any of you are particularly attached to any part of the article or its children. I don't want to step on any toes.

Want to watch my progress? Check out User:Kukudush/Kara-Tur Overhaul.

Kukudush (talk) 20:30, March 18, 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for taking this on! Yes, I agree the continent page should have general and overview information, with lore specific to certain locations on their respective pages or developed into larger, separate articles.


 * Here are some issues to consider when tackling Kara-Tur.


 * Past editors on Kara-Tur pages haven't been the best. Some have copied passages from the sourcebook wholesale; we've removed what we've identified, but there might be some out there still. Others have had very poor use of English, so their articles are not reliably accurate, complete, or easy to read, or are outright incomprehensible. Some fanon lore and misinterpretations may have crept in. I've tagged what I've found for cleanup, if not a total rewrite. We've also wound up with some fan-made maps that include non-canon locations (I just deleted one) that may need to be removed.


 * I've done everything in Koryo, individual currency pages, eastern languages, stubs for tribes and ethnicities, the religions, Chukei province, and miscellaneous things. I've listed my work from here downwards.


 * A convention of the wiki is to divide the continents into smaller regions based on the compass directions, to focus lore on those areas and for generalities (like mentions of the North or the South) and add an intermediate layer of organization. We've done Faerûn and Zakhara. Kara-Tur remains to be done, but I've already categorized some pages as northeast, south, southeast, etc. Kara-Tur is a weird shape and it's been tricky thinking of a decent way to divide it.


 * The Horde sourcebooks make references to Kara-Tur, but typically get everything a little bit wrong, which often trips us up. Spelljammer lore also makes weird references to Kara-Tur, but I can't speak to that. Sirwhiteout may have more knowledge of this.


 * I recommend starting with something specific and narrow in focus in order to get used to things, such as wiki policies and style and the vagaries of the setting, then working your way up to the large topics and broad-scope stuff. It tends to be easier and less overwhelming that way. :)


 * Anyway, thanks again and good luck! — BadCatMan (talk) 01:33, March 19, 2018 (UTC)


 * Just my two cents- Would it be possible to find a complete map of Kara-tur? One that doesn't focus on one nation or region, and shows political boundaries and major geographical features? This would definitely help show where everything is in relation to each other.


 * Also, remember that the FRW is not Wikipedia- it is not structured the same, and does not require the same sorts of articles. In your sandbox page, for instance, I see links to pages such as History of Kara-tur, Climate of Kara-tur, Languages, Demographics, Religions, Races, Culture- which is not entirely correct. Honestly, most of those pages would be unnecessary. Stuff like Culture, History, Languages, belongs on pages for specific nations or groups- the culture of Wa belongs on Page:Wa. There is no one, unified culture of Kara-tur; each culture belongs in its own section on a page dedicated to a group or nation. Also, climate and geography definitely do not require their own articles. Descriptions on Page:Kara-tur, and more detailed descriptions on other pages (again, the geography of Wa belongs in section on Wa's page), are more appropriate.


 * "History of __" pages occur when there's an incredibly detailed history of a nation or people to record- not an entire continent's history. Give a brief overview of the major events in Kara-tur, then more detailed histories on the pages of the nations and groups. For instance, the complete history of Nexal and its achievements and rulers is on its page, but the history of Maztica section, on said page, gives a brief overview of Nexal's history, as well as the history of other peoples on the continent.


 * This is all my suggestions- by no means am I an expert on Kara-tur. I do, however, have a love of organization and lore. Feel free to ignore me or question me as you wish- but I can't promise I'll answer (Maztican final exams are really difficult).--SilverTiger12 (talk) 19:23, March 19, 2018 (UTC)