Talk:Archlich

5e
This might need an update. Tomb of Annihilation consistently describes Acererak as an archlich, which is at odds with the noble aspirations described in this article. From the usage, it seems the 5e "archlich" simply means "extremely powerful lich". --Ir&#39;revrykal (talk) 21:26, July 8, 2018 (UTC)


 * I agree that "'archlich' simply means 'extremely powerful lich'." I think that that is probably the case in earlier editions too. We'll need to put a note at the top of this article about that. Perhaps we should name this to "Archlich (creature)" and have "Archlich" be a disambiguation page that includes all manner of powerful liches that might be called archlich? ~ Lhynard (talk) 23:40, July 8, 2018 (UTC)


 * In 2nd edition, Acererak is a demilich, which in 2E is a more powerful version of a lich that has shed it's body and only keeps it's skull. Archliches there are in general exactly this good version of liches described in the article. I have found a few 2E references using archlich in the sense of very powerful (and evil) lich, though only one indirect one in a Realms source. So I guess splitting into to articles for the good-aligned race and the title is fine. Daranios (talk) 19:59, July 9, 2018 (UTC)


 * Acererak is a demilich in 5e, too, to make matters more confusing. :) I like Lhynard's idea of keeping this article as Archlich (creature), with Archlich serving as a disambig. Nothing is really known about the title, after all. Do you remember where you found instances of non-good archliches in 2e sources? --Ir&#39;revrykal (talk) 05:11, July 10, 2018 (UTC)


 * There would be Renwick Caradoon. A lawful neutral archlich from Waterdeep. That one is 3e though.
 * Saya222 (talk) 06:16, July 10, 2018 (UTC)

The one Realms source is quite shaky: Other sources: Hmm, not as many instances as I thought. Many more where it really means good-aligned lich. Daranios (talk) 07:41, July 10, 2018 (UTC)
 * The bonebat entry from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 2nd edition (revised) says these evil creatures serve "powerful undead (such as liches, archliches, and vampires)". It would be kind of surprising if good archliches employ evil bonebats. I personally think this is simply an error and was meant to say "liches, demiliches, and vampires".
 * Vecna from Oerth, definitely evil, is called an archlich in Encyclopedia Magica Volume II, pp. 460, 564, and other sources describing his background.
 * Fistandantilus from Krynn, also definitely evil, is called an archlich in Dragon magazine 235's short story "Relics", p. 65.
 * Azalin from Ravenloft, again evil, is also called archlich in the adventure From the Shadows, if I remember correctly.