Talk:Polymorph self

How to deal with different polymorph spells
As far as I gathered (I do not have Player's Handbook 3rd edition available at the moment), polymorph self and polymorph other were merged/changed into polymorph (spell) and baleful polymorph in the transition form 3rd to 3.5 edition. How should we treat them? Keep them all separate or merge some? I would tend to the former for the sake of clarity. Treating this change in-universe, is there a year connected to the 3/3.5 changed, like the Year of Wild Magic is with the 2nd/3rd edition change? Maybe 1373 DR, the current year of the Player's Guide to Faerûn? Daranios (talk) 19:39, September 27, 2017 (UTC)


 * The switch from 3e to v.3.5 is considered a correction to the 3.0 rules, not a new edition. It changed only the crunch of 3e, not the lore. This is very different from the switch to 4e, which created a lore reason for the change in the crunch.


 * Really, polymorph other shouldn't exist (as a common spell, but see below) in 3e at all, because it is considered a flaw corrected by v.3.5. I do not think that we should have stats for the 3e version of polymorph other on this wiki, though we might put such information in the appendix.


 * Spells are rarely mentioned by name anyway in novels or in non-crunch parts of adventures. In my opinion, even a spell's name is essentially crunch much of the time. (Yes, this is not the case in Netheril: Empire of Magic, which is why we have this whole project going to begin with, but it is an exception.) However, the rules already allow for players and DMs to create their own spells. There is nothing stopping any player from making a polymorph other for his spellcaster with the DM's permission. If a 3e source says that such and such a wizard knew polymorph other, then she or he did, but that doesn't imply that it was ever a common/standard spell for average spellcasters in the late 1300s.


 * I personally think that many spell articles have too much crunch explaining how spells work, trying to encompass the various editions. I don't know of a better solution, though.


 * Anyhow, in short, if polymorph other has 1e and/or 2e stats, include those and put any 3e info in the appendix. Then, include "See Also"s for the related spells in v.3.5. That's what I would advise, but others may disagree.


 * ~ Lhynard (talk) 16:01, September 29, 2017 (UTC)


 * I agree. The 3.5 PHB describes it as an "upgrade" to the 3.0 rules, but this comes to the same thing: the 3.0 crunch is replaced with the 3.5 wherever possible. This document details the official replacements (though some of the prestige class matches are bizarre and disappointing) at least up to October 2005.
 * Polymorph other and polymorph self first appeared in the Player's Handbook 3rd edition, then were officially changed in Tome and Blood, then were changed again for the Player's Handbook 3.5 edition. Given that kind of variation, it's better to ignore the 3.0 crunch and assume the 3.5 crunch always held. So yeah, it's better to merge or redirect the 3.0 spells into the 3.5 spells. When I have worked on 3.5 spells, I've never bothered to check 3.0 versions. We'd only need to mention the change if a 3.0 Ranger used a polymorph they no longer have access to, but we don't bother giving full spell-lists anyway.
 * I disagree on the spells not being mentioned by name: it's rife through the DC Comics. :D — BadCatMan (talk) 13:05, September 30, 2017 (UTC)


 * Ha ha. When I saw an e-mail that you replied too, I figured that you would mention the comics. :)


 * &hellip;but I said, "in novels or in non-crunch parts of adventures," which doesn't include the comics. :P


 * ~ Lhynard (talk) 13:57, September 30, 2017 (UTC)