Talk:Xanathar (title)

Has this article been split properly yet? ~ Lhynard (talk) 19:09, March 2, 2019 (UTC)
 * The article has been split (into Kirukeskai), but still requires a rewrite to focus on the title/office rather than a specific beholder. I will remove the tag. --Ir&#39;revrykal (talk) 19:15, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

Pronouns
Beholders do not have gender, so why is the listed gender male and male pronouns used all over? Also, the pronouns should be consistent.
 * You're conflating sex and gender. Furthermore, Xanathar is referred to as "he" in source materials. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 03:12, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, I guess the pronouns might be good, but that would mean that these beholders are transgender and the sex would still be none, which is explicitly said on the beholder page.


 * Artie is correct. Sex and gender are not the same thing. We are following the source material. Xanathar is a he, even though he doesn't have male sex organs&mdash;no beholders do.


 * And no, Xanather is not trans. Beholders aren't sexual creatures at all, and he didn't transition from anything.


 * ~ Lhynard (talk) 03:22, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * &hellip;But our categorized were wrong, and I just fixed that. ~ Lhynard (talk) 03:24, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Regarding Xanathar, it's a title and this page is dedicated to it as a group. The original Xanathar was using male pronouns, as well as the 14th century Xanathar. The 15th century Xanatar, however, is referred to as it in the books. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 03:27, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Can you fix that, Artie? I don't know the history enough.


 * And if this is a title, it should not have a Person infobox at all!


 * ~ Lhynard (talk) 03:34, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * No pressure. I just tagged it for cleanup. ~ Lhynard (talk) 03:36, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Correction, this page is supposed to be for the 14th century Xanathar (after looking through it), which means it needs to be cleaned of all 5e lore and the 5e pic. And yes, that one is male. Think we need to rename the page to make it more clear, rather than have 3 pages named Xanathar. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 03:39, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Kirukeskai, maybe? ~ Lhynard (talk) 03:41, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I definitely admit that I jumped in with something I didn't have authority on, but someone is trans when their gender identity does not match their biological sex. Since beholders have no sex, that means that having a gender identity other than non-binary makes a beholder trans.


 * Not everyone agrees with that definition at all. We use a very precise definition here on this wiki for sex and gender, and a modern term like trans is only confusing here. It's enough to say that his sex is none and his gender is masculine.


 * In any case, this whole article is problematic, because there are many Xanathars, and they have different genders.


 * Thank you for commenting on the Talk page and not just making your changes without doing so!


 * ~ Lhynard (talk) 03:39, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * "a modern term like trans is only confusing here" Really. Maybe it is confusing, but it might be apt.


 * No, it's not applicable here. The FR wiki is a lore wiki and such concept does not exist in the Realms. Ppl who we would call gay or trans or bi or non-binary are just people in the Realms. Hence we refer to them via their canonically applicable pronouns. Additionally, beholders are alien Far Plane aberrations that dont fit in the human definition by any stretch. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 14:09, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Of course they wouldn't be referred to as trans by other characters, but they might be by us looking in.
 * Even if so, that wouldn't have place on the wiki as we don't editorialize lore unless there are glaring conflicts in sources. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 14:15, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * How about just something that says "[Name] uses he/him pronouns despite having no biological sex"? This could be on a tag that gets put on other pages of beholders and mind flayers.
 * We already have sex and gender as separate fields in infoboxes. This would be redundant. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 14:21, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think I just realized I was trying to do something that was already done or something. Still, there is the problem with the "its", and that are there any beholders that use female pronouns?
 * "It" is canon pronoun for many aberrant creatures, including the 5th edition Xanathar. I dont remember coming across any female-identified beholders nor illithids. I might be mistaken though. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 14:32, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * There's one in one of the Spelljammer novels. ~ Lhynard (talk) 15:39, 25 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I think we are on the same page now(we were always on the same wiki page :)), and I was just talking about the sexism of the creators, not including any female-identifying aberrations and many male ones.
 * Or the aberrant creatures be default adopt identities of what is perceived as stronger sex socially, when dealing with humanoids. Like how female hyenas grow a false penis. There could be explanation. Also i remembered this beholder lady Great Mother. -Artyom.pavlov (talk) 14:41, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That makes a lot of sense(and neat fun fact about hyenas), maybe there will be more female-identifying aberrations in this new modern time.


 * I don't know about beholders, but, FWIW, there are definitely illithid individuals in the Realms who use feminine pronouns, (as well as those who use neuter pronouns and mascualine pronouns). Illithids lose whatever sex they had before they transformed into illithids. There is no such thing in grammar as a female- or male-pronoun, FWIW. Again, that's mixing up sex and gender. These illithids identify as feminine, not as female. ~ Lhynard (talk) 15:38, 25 January 2022 (UTC)