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Old Wikipedia data Edit

  • Because it would too much work for me alone;
  • Because I worked so much on the Wikipedia entries;
  • Because I believe my intense researches are still of use (especially the labourously collected external links);
  • Because I do not know enough of the forgottenrealms Wikia lore to dare or wish to intervene directly anymore,

I just paste in the permalink of what I believe to be most exhaustive Wikipedia entry on the topic:

Most complete permalink for Zakhara

(starting point: Geographical index of Toril on 18th of March 2007)

Could some kind soul take care of extracting the data somewhere it would not be deleted again because of “lack of notability”? Note that a lot of content may be duplicate and also has to be rewritten. Some link shouls also be checked (think archive.org] if nothing else), Wizards of the Coast not being that serious with permanency of data.


David Latapie ( | @) 12:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

real world basis Edit

Some info is needed on Zakhara's real world basis.

I'm almost positive that at least parts of it are partially based on India. (Pakistan and Bangladesh only came into existence in the 20th century, so they aren't relevant.)

Gringo300 (talk) 03:00, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

Arabian Adventures quotes Arabia as a real world basis for Zakhara on page 9: "The Arabian Adventures rulebook opens the door to a new campagin that weaves threads of Arabian legends with the fantasy of the AD&D(R) game." "Three distinct visions of Arabia have helped give shape to these rules. The first is the historical Arabian Empire [...] eventually encompassing an empire from the Atlantic to India." And so forth.
I am also convinced that Afyal is indeed based on India: It is culturally somewhat distinct from the rest of the continent, it is on the eastern edge of Zakhara, they have jungles (as have the rest of the Ruined Kingdoms), a caste system, and elephants. The symbol of Medina al-Afyal on the map bears a strong resemblance to the Taj Mahal.
In addition, the Seven Voyages of Sindbad the Sailor are cited as one inspiration. According to the Wikipedia article part of those happen in India (or modern-day Pakistan and Sri Lanka). However, apart from the tenuous quote above, I have not found a direct statement about India as a basis for Al-Qadim so far. Daranios (talk) 18:43, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
Aspects of India appear in various places in all three settings. Durpar and the Utter East in Faerûn, Afyal and other places in the north of Zakhara, and various southern lands in Kara-Tur that I'm not too familiar with. They all sit fairly close together where the settings border eachother, around the centre of the super-continent. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:32, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
Zakhara would obviously have basis in Arab areas/cultures, and would probably also have basis in Turkey (ethnic Turks aren't Arabs), Persia/Iran (ethnic Persians/Iranians aren't Arabs, though I've heard that Persia/Iran has an Arab minority), maybe the Berber cultures of most of North Africa, and maybe ancient (pre-Arab) Egypt and Mesopotamia. Maybe a few other things. I made changes to this comment, so I'm resigning this comment. Gringo300 (talk) 15:15, May 18, 2017 (UTC)

PlagiarismEdit

All the recent edits of Unknown User come from this website [1] and I found the cities sections are copied directly from the Land of Fate, such Huzuz on page 63. Personally, I would suggest a "rollback" action, but since so much info was added, I would like a second opinion from my fellow admins and editors :) - Darkwynters (talk) 16:57, March 1, 2014 (UTC)

I agree to a rollback: Looking expemplarily at some section, "The People of Zakhara" and "Honor" are not directly copied, here I am not sure if we would run into a plagiarism risk. But the rest seems directly copied from Arabian Adventures and Land of Fate. Daranios (talk) 18:52, March 1, 2014 (UTC)
I defer to Daranios as our Zakhara expert. Rollback anything directly copied, but you can keep stuff that looks rewritten, if you have the time to review it. If there is good stuff from that al-qadim site that is not plagiarized from WotC, we could ask them for permission to re-host it. —Moviesign (talk) 19:51, March 1, 2014 (UTC)

It is done... great insight, my friends :) - Darkwynters (talk) 06:55, March 2, 2014 (UTC)

Zakhara's northern borderEdit

Does anyone have any information on the areas shown on the map in the very North of Zakhara, Konigheim, Sragadha and the Border Marches? Do the indeed exist in any source - maybe in Blood & Magic or the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas - or were they added by the map's creator? Konigheim does have its article, but does not give any sources. Daranios (talk) 19:19, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

There might be some small bits of info in The Shining South (1993) sourcebook. I'll check when I get home. Artemaz (talk) 19:26, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

EDIT: I didn't see anything in The Shining South (1993).Artemaz (talk) 00:21, April 8, 2016 (UTC)

You are talking about the area known as the Five Kingdoms which is in the "Utter East" or extreme Southeast Faerûn past the Golden water, south of Ulgarth. Konigheim is mentioned on page 95 of The Grand History of the Realms. —Moviesign (talk) 23:56, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
Re: Sragadha, it seems to be a fan creation as per this Candlekeep thread. I'm not a huge fan of relying on unofficial sources, especially when they just make stuff up. I'm all for using unofficial maps to illustrate, but I don't think we should rely on them as sources. --Ir'revrykal (talk) 05:39, April 8, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! I agree about not using unofficial material as sources (though the maps are very nice). The Utter East also contains a link to a map from Candlekeep that would solve our questions, but the question is if this is homebrew, too, or is taken/based on any official source. No mention of Sragadha and the Border Marches there, however, so I guess we can so far rule both out. Daranios (talk) 08:49, April 8, 2016 (UTC)
Apparently that map might be from Faces of Deception, but I don't have it myself, so I can't verify. --Ir'revrykal (talk) 08:59, April 8, 2016 (UTC)
Ah, so that might be the source to solve all our problems. Maybe someone who has it will provide info and missing references to the Utter East and Five Kingdom-related articles. Daranios (talk) 09:11, April 8, 2016 (UTC)
I have the MMP version of Faces of Deception, but don't remember it having a map. I'll check when I get home after work.Artemaz (talk) 12:49, April 8, 2016 (UTC)

I was involved in the Utter East Redux project on the old WotC boards that explored the forgotten corner and also invented a lot of fanon for. I'm afraid the boards and the image hosting site I used for images are both gone now, so I can't link to anything. The area was put together between Faces of Deception, Blood & Magic, the Double Diamond Triangle Saga, and a story in Realms of Mystery. I have far-distant plans to wikify the region, but it's a complicated project. Shall I bring it forward to clear things up?

Sragadha and the Border Marches I've never heard of, and so are definitely fanon (i.e., common homebrew, not canon or licensed). Just don't trust any fan-made maps of the region, because Markustay used a whole lot of artistic license, adding a lot of places and removing a whole river and the land between. Other fan cartographers have followed his work. This map is from Faces of Deception, and is so far the best canon map of the area. — BadCatMan (talk) 13:04, April 8, 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for all the info! I look forward to see more details to the Utter East, but the map you linked is completely fine for my purpose, so no need to rush anything from my side. Daranios (talk) 19:31, April 8, 2016 (UTC)

Wow I feel cheated. My 1st printing mass market paperback of Faces of Deception does not have the map... Artemaz (talk) 00:42, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

Mine neither. :( Sorry, I could've sworn it was in Faces of Deception, and that I'd located it somewhere. It's undoubtedly a novels map though. I need to do some extensive re-research. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:50, April 9, 2016 (UTC)