Forums: Helping Hand > 5e pantheons

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Hello everyone,

I have been updating the information on deities to 5th edition (it has also been requested here more or less at the same time I started), but have found a few issues that I don't really know how to approach.

For example, the concept of exarch is not present in 5th edition, as the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide presents pretty much all pantheons (except the Mulhorandi pantheon) as composed of equally-named "gods". Even power levels are not formally mentioned. So, as per the most-recent-edition policy, should these subdivisions be removed from templates such as navboxes and general descriptions of pantheons and be relegated to edition-specific entries in infoboxes?

A further complication to this is the fact that not all deities have been updated or mentioned in 5e sources. For example, Thard Harr is notably absent from the Morndinsamman in SCAG, but there is absolutely no information as to what happened (that I could find), or his current status in the post-Second Sundering era. So, in the absence of more recent information, does he remain en exarch?

So far we have information on the Faerûnian, dwarven, elven, drow, halfling, gnomish and orc pantheons from SCAG and also a bit on giant, gnoll, mind flayer, and yuan-ti deities from Volo's Guide to Monsters.

Any suggestions on what would be the best approach here?

Sirwhiteout (talk) 21:01, January 24, 2018 (UTC)

For the powers levels, we do have an official example of power leves in 5e, with Bahamut and Tiamat, that the 5e MM states are "lesser deities". So, I guess that the gods should inherit the rank they have in 4e in most cases, and in others... dunno, perhaps all exarchs now are lesser deities?
Zero (talk) 21:23, January 24, 2018 (UTC)

The {{Deity}} template automatically displays the most recent power parameter under the name, so if power4e is set to "Exarch", then it will display that until power5e is given a value. As long as the edition-specific parameters are being used (unfortunately, Thard Harr doesn't currently use them), the most-recent-edition policy is enforced. I think you should leave power5e blank until we have more information about exarchs. I also vote for using "Deity" and "Lesser Deity" rather than "God" and "Lesser God".
Moviesign (talk) 22:30, January 24, 2018 (UTC)

Ah, I knew I had seen power levels mentioned somewhere in 5e, but I couldn't remember where. Thanks for pointing that out, Zero.

I am aware that the {{Deity}} infobox takes the latest edition into account, so when there was no new information for that I just left the field blank, just as you said (pretty cool piece of code, by the way, Movie). But what about, say, dead powers that came back in 5e? Should they be reclassified in the 5e stats as the latest power level they had when alive? Or should power5e just be set to "Deity"? For example, Gorm Gulthyn was dead in 4e, but came back in 5th. For lack of any updates to his status, should he just be called a "God" (or "Deity" as you suggested) or should we copy his power3e stat in power5e and say that he is a lesser deity again? The latter option feels somewhat like we're inferring too much on their current status.

Other than the infobox, what stumped me was what to do with the navboxes. Since they don't get sorted automatically as the latest edition changes, I'd be inclined to use the latest information available, as it appears on the infobox. That's when I've run into those issues.

Sirwhiteout (talk) 23:27, January 24, 2018 (UTC)

Well, hmmm. We have the collapsible deity navboxes that are edition-specific, so those are easy. I feel the main navbox for the Morndinsamman should have the most up-to-date info available, with no assumptions made (so not lesser deity unless we find something that says so). I'm ok with lower-case god, but some people get bent out of shape about the upper-case name, so why bait the trolls? Deity is just as good. Anybody else want to weigh in?
Moviesign (talk) 01:09, January 25, 2018 (UTC)

I for one am always in favor of troll-starving policies. Deity it is.

Sticking to the Morndinsamman example then, the most up-to-date information available (that is, ignoring power level since they're all called "gods" indiscriminately) would render a navbox like this:

whereas restoring the previous status before death would result in one like this:

The Morndinsamman
The dwarven pantheon

I tend to favor simplicity, so I lean towards the first one.

However, there is also a third option, which is to follow the scheme that is present in SCAG itself to group the deities in terms of their areas of influence. That would make something like this:

The Morndinsamman
The dwarven pantheon
Forge Father and Reverend Mother
MoradinBerronar Truesilver
Gods of Battle
Clangeddin SilverbeardGorm GulthynHaela Brightaxe
Gods of Craft
Gods of Far Places
Dugmaren BrightmantleMarthammor Duin
Gods of Wealth
Gods of Evil
Deep DuerraLaduguer
Thard Harr

Please forgive the long post. I welcome suggestions at this point.

Sirwhiteout (talk) 03:42, January 25, 2018 (UTC)

I like #2 as it feels more accurate. But if we want to be current and accurate I think #1 is the best suited. #3 is a bit too busy imo.
Ruf (talk) 04:01, January 25, 2018 (UTC)

Are exarchs different in 5e than they were in 4e?
~ Lhynard (talk) 02:25, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

The term "exarch" has not yet come up in any 5e source, as far as I know. All deities that were previously called exarchs that are mentioned in 5e appear in the same standing as other deities.
Sirwhiteout (talk) 02:29, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

In that case, I prefer simply:
~ Lhynard (talk) 02:34, January 29, 2018 (UTC)
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