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Hello everyone,

Given the large amount of event pages in this wiki, it seems timely to create an infobox for different types of events, as well as a standard section scheme.

Building up on the structure suggested by Stu1131181, we could use the same infobox both for recurring events such as holidays, and for one-off events such as natural (or magical) disasters. We could keep an arrangement somewhat like this:

  1. A general section with type and dates:
    • image
    • caption
    • name
    • othernames
    • type (holiday, natural disaster, magical catastrophe)
    • location
    • scheduling (if recurring, is it the same day each year? Is it only on the full moon?)
    • frequency (if recurring, annual, monthly, every 4 years)
    • date (if non-recurring, which day)
    • duration (1 day, 2 tendays, etc.)
    • genrefs (for references to all fields above)
  2. A history section, with fields for both one-off and recurring events.
    • For recurring events:
      • activities (celebrations, observances, etc.)
      • observedby (if recurring, such as a holiday, the associated deity or culture if secular)
      • relatedto (other related events)
      • first (if it is a recurring event, the first occurrence or event that originated this)
    • For singular events:
      • cause (short description or culprit)
      • target (or affected region)
      • outcome (casualties, damage, new institutions, etc.)
    • histrefs (for all fields above)

Standard sections could include:

  1. Description (location, activities)
  2. History
    1. Causes/Background
    2. Aftermath

Thoughts?

Sirwhiteout (talk) 17:17, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


If the event is associated with a deity, should there be a field specifically for that, or should the observedby field be used, as in "observed by followers of Auril" ?
Moviesign (talk) 17:21, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


Yes, in principle the associated deity would be covered by the observedby field. The justification for that format is that it creates a flexible format, in case of recurring events that aren't associated with any deity. But I suppose that an additional deity field could also be added, for example for category generation purposes.
Sirwhiteout (talk) 17:26, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


I wholly support this measure as writing about FR history is one of my favorite subjects!
Ruf (talk) 18:01, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


I think and Event infobox is needed, but I don't have much of an opinion for what fields we need, as I haven't written many event articles as such. Most of my history articles are about broad eras or dynasties, not individual events in them.

In general, I think that templates should share code when possible, like we have done with {{Mountain}} and {{Body of water}} being pass-throughs to {{Location}}. So, I think that our current {{Conflict}} should end up passing-through to {{Event}}, whatever it may look like.

~ Lhynard (talk) 18:57, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


I like the idea of a pass-through template for {{Conflict}}. In fact, some of the fields of that template could be ported to the generic event infobox, such as:
  • partof
  • result (equivalent to the *outcome* field suggested above)

Likewise, a pass-through Conflict infobox may benefit from some of the generic Event fields, such as:

  • duration
  • cause
  • othernames
  • relatedto
  • refs fields, etc.

In short, I think it's quite a good idea to make {{Conflict}} a pass-through of Event, basically making the sections on combatants and battles visible only for that pass-through, but available in case there is overlap.

Sirwhiteout (talk) 19:23, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


The Conflict infobox uses a special layout of up to 4 columns for the various combatants. As such, it is not really appropriate for things like holidays or realms-changing events. I think they will be easier to maintain if kept separate.
Moviesign (talk) 19:26, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


I have no strong feelings about making one a pass-trough of the other. But they would certainly benefit from sharing some common fields, like the ones I mentioned above.

So in a nutshell, the {{Conflict}} infobox could be expanded to include:

  • duration
  • cause
  • othernames
  • relatedto
  • refs fields for each section (genrefs to appear in the "Part of" header, belligrefs or so for the combatants sections). Maybe even with a "Belligerents" heading title to encompass "Combatants", "Commanders", "Strength" and "Casualties"?

On the other hand, the Event infobox could also take some of the good examples of Combat to include a partof field, that could default to a "Basic information" header if empty, and where the references of the first section (genrefs) would be concentrated.

Would something like that work?

Sirwhiteout (talk) 19:37, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


Hello everyone,

I'd love to support the endeavor too. I have one question regarding the "activities"-field. I fear I didn't really understand what is to be written there. May I ask for an example what is to be written there? I either hink of an entire sentence that would clutter the infobox or, when I try it to shorten it into few words, something so general as to be practically meaningless. The example I'll take here is the Running and it is a bit of an extreme one, but the sentence-version of activities would be "Drow from a near-surface area annually go to the surface to loot and kill in a surface community" the few words-version is "Annual massacre". As mentioned above, the sentence-version looks as though it would clutter the activities-field and the short version might be too hard to understand hat it is about.

I'm sorry, if I have just misunderstood the purpose of the field.

Best regards

Saya222 (talk) 19:44, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


The idea is for the activities field to be a short description of what people do in observance of the event (if anything), such as "Surface raiding expeditions" in the case of the Running article, or "Religions celebrations", "Festivals", "Ritualistic sacrifices", etc., possibly including more than one activity.

I hope this helps clarifying the idea. Any suggestions on how to improve it are most welcome.

Sirwhiteout (talk) 19:54, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


Thank you very much, it clarified a lot. Saya222 (talk) 19:55, March 9, 2019 (UTC)
{{{2}}}


On second thought, I think the pass-through idea will work. We should have separate documentation for the two uses of the template so people making an Event that is not a Conflict don't get confused with 15 extra fields.
Moviesign (talk) 19:56, March 9, 2019 (UTC)


Excellent work on the template! It looks amazing.

By putting it to work on a page or two, I've come up with a field that may be useful:

  • A culprit, perpetrator, or responsible field, in case some individual or organization caused the event. This is not necessarily the same as cause. For example, the death curse was caused by the activation of the Soulmonger, but the culprit was Acererak. Karsus's Folly was caused by the death of Mystryl, but the perpetrator was Karsus.

As for automatic categories, there could be a standard set of event types. Possibilities include:

  • Conflicts, subdivided into:
    • Wars
    • Battles
    • Sieges (technically distinct from battles, but we don't necessarily need to be that fine-grained)
  • Geopolitical events (such as changes in dynasty, e.g. the Tethyrian Interregnum)
  • Religious events
  • Holidays [meaning the dates in which festivals are held, not the festivities themselves; e.g. Waukeentide (see Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, p. 185)]
  • Celebrations (there is a large overlap with Holidays, but this field could cover a specific celebration that did not take the whole day, or a festivity within a holiday with a different name, e.g. Caravance, Goldenight, Guildsmeet, and Leiruin, all of which are festivities that happened during the holiday of Waukeentide)
  • Fairs (and markets)
  • Epidemics
  • Magical events (or supernatural events, e.g. the Wild Hunt and Tyrantfog)
  • Natural disasters (the 1451 DR eruption of Mount Hotenow could fit here, but not many disasters on Toril are natural)
  • Magical disasters (such as curses and so on that affected a region or all of Toril, e.g. Karsus's Folly and the death curse)
  • Cataclysms (truly world-shaking events, e.g. the Dawn Cataclysm, the Time of Troubles, the Spellplague, and the Second Sundering)

Of course, an event may fit into more than one type. This list can (and probably should) be refined to better reflect how detailed we want to be when sorting events.

Thoughts?

Sirwhiteout (talk) 04:32, March 11, 2019 (UTC)

My 2 cp:

  • I think adding an auto-addition category like "Recurring events" if "yes" is checked for that field in the infobox would help clarify those events.
  • MAYBE "Migrations" such as in the case of the Retreat.
  • I also like the term "responsible party" for people that caused events.
Ruf (talk) 16:44, March 11, 2019 (UTC)


A few thoughts on some of the proposed categories:
  • Sieges: I agree there's probably no need to make the distinction. That being said, there's always the possibility of a reader specifically looking for a list of sieges.
  • Holidays: would the articles here be categorized both as Dates and as Celebrations?
  • Epidemics: this might be an unnecessary overlap with Category:Diseases (which, apparently, is already a subcat of Events).
  • Could we have a general "Disasters" category? Magical disasters would be categorized as both Disasters and as Magical events.

Also, a question: would Dates and Years not also technically qualify as Events? Should they fit into this scheme somehow?

Ir'revrykal (talk) 16:48, March 11, 2019 (UTC)


I like the idea of separating recurring events from singular events in categories as well. A recurring field would do that nicely.

A migrations category is also interesting. Maybe it could be expanded to include pilgrimages, such as the Scar Pilgrimage? Or would that be a stretch?

About the categorization of holidays: I would think that holidays should be classified as dates only if there is a calendar day with that same name. But I agree that in this system they would always be categorized as celebrations. This way, the scheme assumes that all holidays are celebrations, but not all celebrations are holidays.

As for epidemics being overlapping with diseases, I disagree. As an event, it would constitute a particular outbreak of a known disease. In fact, the {{Disease}} template has an outbreak field, which could be populated by these individual events. As an additional idea, an event categorized as an epidemic might even borrow the formatting and color scheme of the Disease template. I think that would be cool.

I also like a "Disasters" category having its own subdivisions. They could in fact include Cataclysms as well as the other types of disasters.

Finally, I don't have any strong objections against calling dates and years subcategories of events. That seems something that would benefit people searching for points in history, whether they have a particular significance or not.

Sirwhiteout (talk) 17:25, March 11, 2019 (UTC)


Here are my points of concern:
  • Category:Diseases should be removed from Category:Events by type. Add Outbreaks and Epidemics as generated by the template or by hand.
  • Games (in-universe) should be removed from Events by type. The Olympic Games are an event made up of a collection of events, each of which is an instance of a game. Articles describing games should not be using {{Event}}, but an article about the Championship Games of Ravens Bluff should.
  • I think Wars is already covered by Conflicts so remove that and add Attacks (which already exists).
  • Dates, Years, and the 6 Holiday pages do not and will not use the Event infobox and should not be categorized as Events for the same reason we don't consider sunrise and sunset to be events. They are merely a convenient, standardized way to mark the passage of time. Waukeentide is a recurring festival that lasts a tenday. Goldenight is a recurring holiday that is partof Waukeentide, for example.

For automatic categories:

  • Recurring events will be a new Event by type and will be added to the page if either the schedule or frequency parameters are set to any value.
  • The only other auto-cat being discussed is how type will translate into Events by type (unless I missed something). I will gather all the suggestions and make an {{EventCats}} template like we do for other infoboxes, so get your suggestions in this thread.
Moviesign (talk) 20:41, March 11, 2019 (UTC)
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