Forums: Helping Hand > FR date on the home page?

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I got bitten by the template bug again and came up with User:Moviesign/Template:FR date which returns the Calendar of Harptos date for any input Gregorian date (within reason: it adjusts for leap years but don't go trying anything before 111 AD). I would like to propose that it be added to the home page just under the line that states we have 29,845 articles. It defaults to the current date and will also announce the five major festivals and Shieldmeet. Please view my Sandbox for the proposed addition to the front page.

Questions? Comments? Concerns?

Moviesign (talk) 21:28, January 5, 2014 (UTC)

Love it... especially since I usually just make my in-game days based on the current one.
- Darkwynters (talk) 23:32, January 5, 2014 (UTC)

It looks great. As a future expansion to the template, maybe we could add notable holidays (as noted in the various pantheon sourcebooks) and events celebrated on the day? 22:01, January 6, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm...there are so many Holy Days that I might just make a separate template for that. Waukeen alone has 12 or 13! I can only do those that have specific dates though, no phase-of-the-moon holidays unfortunately. Wizards has a calendar tool for that, but I can't link it in a forum post.
Moviesign (talk) 03:23, January 7, 2014 (UTC)

I've actually been wanting to do this for a few years now but I'm not much good at creating the more complex templates and everyone always seemed so busy (when I was around at least).
-hashtalk 13:16, January 7, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I went nuts and made User:Moviesign/Template:Holy days which takes the output from the FR date template (or any Harptos date you want to put in) and generates a bulleted list of holy days. See my Sandbox for an example and please comment here about format etc. and whether you think the text should be present or past tense. I put it in present tense because the calendar is not tied to a specific year so it is sort of like reading a Years page. Let's come to a consensus please. I have only (quickly) input the dates from Faiths & Avatars, so there is still some work to be done. If you folks like this, I'm anxious to put it up on the home page. :)
Moviesign (talk) 04:15, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

Looks great... and while I like the past tense policy... present tense feels right concerning this "present" day marker :)
- Darkwynters (talk) 04:37, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

Love it. I think present tense makes sense as it is designed to be read as if today is the day in question. You've outdone yourself moviesign.
--Eli the Tanner (talk) 23:55, January 8, 2014 (UTC)

Since I haven't heard any big objections yet, I'm going to put it on the front page and see how it goes. Please comment here if you have issues. I'll be writing the documentation for these two templates shortly.
Moviesign (talk) 05:24, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Looks great Movie... excellent job, as always :)
- Darkwynters (talk) 00:24, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

AHHHhhh... do you want it presented as day then month, or month then day? Which do you like better, 17 Eleasias or Eleasias 17? I need to know because the Holy Days template would probably have to be changed. If you care, please post your preference here as soon as possible.
Moviesign (talk) 19:53, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Rather belatedly... Great work!

I once made a list of every holy day for every deity, if anyone needs a list? Some do fall on the same same days, especially the five holidays and the solstices and equinoxes, so they would get crowded.


Present tense, since it is tied to the current day.

I'd recommend using the ordinal numbers, that is, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, ..., 12th, etc. That's just how we normally say and read dates ("12th day of January", "January the 12th"). So that would be either "12th of Hammer" or "Hammer 12th". That also helps clarify that we're dealing with a month to new readers ("Twelve hammers?"). Or that might too hard to code.

Being a US franchise and we're using US English, I'd recommend using the standard US date style, month followed by day. So, Hammer 12th?

Maybe it's just me, but a Realms date just isn't incomplete without the year: the Year of X, or such-and-such DR. Could these be worked in? We'd need to stay separated from the time-line, so it couldn't be tied to the current setting date (1479 or so), so maybe a random year? Perhaps with a link to the year in question? Never mind, that might be too complicated and confusing.

Instead, how about the common name for the month? Say "12th Hammer, Deepwinter" or "21st Alturiak, the Claw of Winter". Just to get a bit more fluff in there.

Regarding the presentation of the date, I suggest losing the second, outer box around it to save space and avoid the clutter. I'll fiddle with that. Ah, I see, it should contain the holy day, but it looks empty without one.

Holy days might be generalised to a range of local customs, such as the Bone Dance (itself holy) or The Arming in the Vast.

— BadCatMan (talk) 07:28, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the major holidays are already crowded, having about 15 or more entries so far. Your list is welcome to be merged with what I have already entered. Give me another day or so to finish up the easy sources and then we'll see what's missing.

Present tense it is.

I looked for calendar info in various sources and the 4th edition Forgotten Realms Player's Guide says on page 155 that "days of the month are noted as numbers followed by the month name". This doesn't mean we have to follow the convention, however. I might see if I can make a formatting template that would translate the date into fluffier presentation styles, including the common names for the months. I also would like a special date calendar page that shows all the items in one place, so I'm working on that.

Perhaps we could add another box on the front page that transcludes a random Years page, but I would keep it separate from the "current date" box to avoid confusion.

We can try it without the second box and see how it looks. Tomorrow (13 Hammer) there will be a holy day entry btw.

Any special date can be put in the {{Holy days}} template. I just called it holy days because it was a short name that was easily understood. I'll add the Bone Dance and the Arming unless you beat me to it.

Moviesign (talk) 15:03, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

I removed the bottom margin from {{Content box}} so that an empty box looks symmetrical. Let me know if that breaks anything elsewhere. Does anyone know how to get the local GMT offset so I can make the {{FR date}} template show the date in local time? I live in the Eastern Time Zone and my date changes at 7 o'clock at night :-/ On the bright side, we now have our first holy day announcement. :)
Moviesign (talk) 00:14, January 13, 2014 (UTC)

Date format: Grand History follows a different format, number followed by month: Hammer 13, Kythorn 25. I can't recall many other day/month dates in Realms sources. But if the FRPG wants to be so specific about it, we might as well follow suit.

I played around with the location and presentation of the date information at User:BadCatMan/Main Page. I simply put it in the format of the other content boxes, for symmetry. That makes it easily and neatly expandable with additional information: holy days and celebrations, a random year, maybe a line for "On this day in...". What do you think?

We'd need to finish de-plagiarising the Years pages before we advertise them on the Main Page however.

I'm at GMT +8 myself, so the date and feature article change-overs come relatively late. I see 13 Hammer and the Communion of Laughter now however.

— BadCatMan (talk) 02:06, January 13, 2014 (UTC)

Your main page looks very nice. I would like to see the date as close to the top of the page as possible, since it changes every day while the other rotating features change much more slowly. You have inspired me to try a few things. The problem with giving it its own box is that most of the days of the year have nothing to display. We could make a default placeholder that says something innocuous, but I would rather it just state the date and be done with it, rather than trying to fill the void with something that isn't lame. I don't like how the bullet points are center-justified by the {{Content box}} that I used, so this still needs some work. I'll see what I can do. I should probably make my own sandbox Main Page until we get this hashed out.
Moviesign (talk) 04:13, January 13, 2014 (UTC)

You can see my idea for the Main Page at User:Moviesign/Main Page. The date is in the title bar of the box and any factoids for that day will appear below it.

I would like to put together a full calendar of all the days, but there is a limit of 100 loop iterations per page (including any transclusions) so for now I've had to break it up into four different pages with roughly three months in each. I asked the Wiki Community Help guys and they said performance issues prevent them from allowing any more than 100 iterations of a loop on a single page.

Looks like I'm going to have to change the spelling of Eleasis also. Please look these over and make suggestions on the content, or you can change it yourself by editing {{Holy days}} if you wish. Another solution they suggested was making each day a separate page and including them all into one page with a Dynamic Page List. I'm going to check that out also because it looks like we can do lots of nifty stuff with it.

Moviesign (talk) 05:47, January 14, 2014 (UTC)

For BadCatMan, there is now a formatting template for FR dates. I will write documentation for it soon, but it's very simple. By specifying a parameter or two, it will take the output from {{FR date}} and switch the order, add the word "of", or add the ordinal numeric suffix (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.).

Unless anyone has any objection, I'm going to put the FR date in it's own fancy box at the top of the left-hand column on the Main Page.

Woops, I just remembered I was going to add the colloquial names of the months. Back to the drawing board.

Moviesign (talk) 17:26, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I have moved the date/holy days thing to its own box on the main page. The formatting template will generate the common name of the month and present it in a more reader-friendly format. Feedback please. Rhetorical question: why are templates so much fun? I have no idea.

Check out the calendar links above and add more factoids to the {{Holy days}} template if you have them. If you use a source that is not already listed in documentation, please add yours to the list.

Moviesign (talk) 22:26, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

Looks extremely professional!!!
- Darkwynters (talk) 23:01, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

I was wondering if the box on the main age could link to the full list of Dates and Holy days somehow? Do we have an existing article of them all or is it just the template?
--Eli the Tanner (talk) 01:37, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Currently they are all stored in the template. If we didn't have a maximum of 100 iterations per page, I could easily create a page that lists the entire calendar year and all the factoids. Right now, all I can do is what you see above, breaking the year up into four quarters. There are a couple ways to do this, one of which is to create a separate page for each day, which is a bit tedious, but could be done. Another way that might work is to put them all in one page and separate them with headings. I was hoping to make a page that looked like a real calendar, but first I have to get around the 100 iteration limit. I'm still working on it.
Moviesign (talk) 05:14, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Finally getting back to this. Great work, Movie.

I'm still a little uncomfortable with the format however. Every section heading just gives a brief description of what follows and shouldn't change ("Featured article", "Did you know..."). But your date box presents information in the heading, and this can get very long and unbalancing against the other headings. I've tried an alternative at User:BadCatMan/Main Page. I think it's a bit neater. Once we starting adding in local festivals and historical information, we should get some information every day, so a small or empty box won't be a problem.

— BadCatMan (talk) 12:42, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, but I'd still like the date to be big and bold. See User:Moviesign/Main Page for a slight variation, and a demo of the proposed "On this day" template (mentioned below).

If we start adding dates from history then the {{Holy days}} template is going to get unwieldy. It's already the 12th largest file on the wiki, beating out Menzoberranzan! I think breaking it up into separate files, one for each day, is going to be the best option (much as I hate to admit it). I propose changing {{Holy days}} to {{On this day}} which will test for the existence of the date page and if found, print out "On this day:" and the factoids from the file. The category system can be used to organize the files as well as allow DPL to generate a full calendar as Eli inquired about. (DPL can include up to 500 files which is more than enough. There is no elegant way to get around the 100 iteration limit.) In addition, the individual files could contain a References section surrounded by <noinclude> tags so each factoid could be referenced—something that sorta bugged me as I populated the Holy days template (hmmm...I'd better test that). What do you think, sirs?

Moviesign (talk) 04:57, January 23, 2014 (UTC)

As described in the last post, I have created a few test pages for calendar dates (with references!) that can be pulled in by other templates like {{On this day}} and a future calendar page that shows all the events for entire months or the year. Please examine the following and comment, before I put forth the effort to do the entire year.

First is this page that demonstrates the aggregation of the individual date pages and shows that the presentation is just like the {{Holy days}} template (to be superseded by {{On this day}}) with the added date headings, which are links to the pages showing the citations. Here they are for quick reference: Hammer 1, 13, 15, 22, and 30. And finally, a category to organize them and provide the sort order, otherwise Hammer 2 comes after Hammer 15 and before Hammer 22.

Please take a look and tell me if you think it's worth doing and any suggestions to make it better.

Moviesign (talk) 05:10, January 28, 2014 (UTC)

I find differing font sizes in a block of text jarring. I tried it again with bold dates, but not big: User:BadCatMan/Main Page. Compromise?

Yeah, making 366 "Holy day"/"On this day" templates would ultimately be easier and quicker, I guess. I can generate a list of links to fill out using a mathematics program (Mathematica). We can publish a page with only a single character, which is fairly quick. We can get a few editors on it to make it go quicker. A bot can then populate them with generic code and text. Information unique to each day would have to be copy-pasted manually, of course, but saving and moving to the next page can be done with only one click in AutoWikiBrowser (the bot managing program).

I don't think we need references on the Main Page, just to avoid clutter. We haven't had them on Featured Articles or Did You Know? and I can't think of a wiki that does. Ideally, one should just click of the primary link and find the reference there. Ah, do you mean to have references appear only on the individual day pages? That's okay then.

I can't follow the code these days, but those day pages look fine and easy enough.

— BadCatMan (talk) 12:22, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

The way my User:Moviesign/Template:On this day template works right now, it checks for the existence of a page and, if not found, doesn't print anything. Therefore, we don't need to create all 366 pages at once, we can create them as we find date-specific events to document. Making a page with a single character in it would just display the heading and that character, which is not something I'd want on the main page. Since I made the {{Holy days}} template, I'm volunteering to divide that up into individual pages (there really are not that many...much of the calendar is empty), and add the references. Yes, the references only show up when viewing each date page directly.
Moviesign (talk) 15:11, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

If we just cover the last few pages of Grand History, there will be on-this-days for just about every day of the year.

Single character: I meant, someone can press a single key then hit publish, just to put a dummy blank page in the system. Then the bot can come along, remove the dot, and put in categories and code. It would only be a temporary measure on the road to creating all the pages.

If you know what name format you want to use for them (Hammer 1 or 1 Hammer or...?), I can begin work on generating them, while I have the time and the ideas how.

— BadCatMan (talk) 03:45, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

I started with month day so that the pages would be grouped by month and we can use the category sortkey for the order. (I'm trying to plan ahead for a calendar page/widget.) The name is easily generated with the {{Format FR date}} template by choosing the reverse option. As long as we don't show a disfunctional date box on the Main Page, I'm okay with creating all 366 pages. Note that we either need to rename the existing pages for the major holidays, or we need a convention to distinguish the "On this day" factoid pages from the existing ones. Something like Midwinter (date) ?
Moviesign (talk) 05:41, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

How about a slashed name off the template? For example, Template:On this Day/Alturiak 3, Template:On this Day/Midwinter, etc.

Or would you rather have them as fully fledged articles in the main namespace, with References and such? Judicious use of the noinclude tag could make the Midwinter article, say, serve dual purposes as an article about Midwinter and as a list of events on that day. Though regular historical events that occurred on one Midwinter would be weird.

Otherwise, if Midwinter (date) would work, that should be fine.

It's weird coming to FRW and having it tell its the Claw of Winter when here it's the height of summer.

— BadCatMan (talk) 06:11, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

I would like the date pages to be fully fledged articles with references, but they don't really need infoboxes or section headings (well, except for ==References==) IMHO. A sentence or two at the top explaining that the page is for listing calendar events and a warning about editing should be sufficient. We could add an ==On This Day== section to the existing holiday pages and put all the factoids in it, surrounded by noincludes etc. I'd rather do that than create two pages for every holiday.

Would you like me to add an option to the {{Format FR date}} template that flips the date by 6 months so you can make your own southern hemisphere date tool? :)

Moviesign (talk) 13:34, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I hacked up a little code in Mathematica to generate lists of links to every day of the year. Though I spent too long trying to get it to work neatly, and the lists required some tidying, it was much quicker less tedious than doing them manually. You can see my grand list at User:BadCatMan/day list

After that, it's easy to click each link, open a bunch of tabs in a browser, then hit a key and publish in each one. A couple of minutes work per month. If every regular editor takes a month or two or three, we can get it down quite quickly. Or we can leave them and create them as needed, but it's easier to run AutoWikiBrowser (the bot program) through a full list and do the work all at once.

Next, I used AutoWikiBrowser to remove the placeholder period and paste in your noincluded Reference section and category. The only problem is updating the category sort-key for month and day; it's easier to do it month by month, and correct the first nine days by hand while in AWB. Days after the ninth don't need the sort-key anyway. Again, a couple of minutes to do that.

Then I copied in the date information you prepared. So, Hammer 1 is identical to User:Moviesign/Hammer 1.

How does it look to you? Is the format correct and useful? Anything more I should add?

Thanks, but I think we Antipodeans will get by. :) There's always the phases of the moon, if you want to get really busy. ;)

— BadCatMan (talk) 12:07, February 4, 2014 (UTC)

Ok, looks good. I propose the following be put at the top of each page. Hopefully the bot can do that?
<noinclude>This page is for listing calendar events and it transcluded by other pages.
Please observe the placement of "noinclude" tags when editing this page.</noinclude>

DPL might require that each category have its sortkey set, I don't know for sure yet. Hopefully not.

Moviesign (talk) 02:01, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that's certainly doable.

What is "DPL"?

How would the sort-key need to be set? I'm trying to think of a semi-automatic way of working these out that isn't more work than it saves.

PS: I should note I forgot to update the edit summary on those pages, using my Years work instead.

— BadCatMan (talk) 02:29, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

And now Alturiak is done.

Ah, how should we spell "Eleasis" or "Eleasias"? Both are used in the sourcebooks, I went with FRCS 3e for "Eleasis".

— BadCatMan (talk) 03:59, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Excellent work so far :)
- Darkwynters (talk) 04:13, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

DPL -> Dynamic Page List, see User:Moviesign/TestDPL for an example.

I went with Eleasis and made a redirect for the other one.

Thanks for the help with the boilerplate! And thank you DW :)

Moviesign (talk) 04:28, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

I've been really happy with your work Movie :) Unfortunately, something seems to have gone horribly wrong with Template:FR date.
-hashtalk 10:35, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Horribly, horribly wrong. D: I put noinclude around the Today in the Realms box to simply hide it, but weirdly, that seems to have fixed the problem instead. EDIT: No, it didn't. It seems to come and go. I'm confused. Movie! Help!
— BadCatMan (talk) 11:33, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm...I think they changed something in the matrix. Looking into it.
Moviesign (talk) 13:52, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Should we be looking out for agents?
-hashtalk 14:05, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Someone at Wikia must have broken something. It seems to be fixed now. If you still see errors anywhere, try clearing your cache, or append ?action=purge to the end of the URL. Edit: In some cases the errors are quite persistent. I've had to edit a page, preview it, and save it (with no changes) to get the errors to go away. I haven't tried closing my browser yet.
Moviesign (talk) 14:31, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I think I have finally found the magic combination of DPL parameters and wiki markup that will allow me to replace the {{Holy days}} template with an {{On this day}} template that will use the individual date pages we are creating. It should output a blank if the page does not exist or if it does not contain a heading titled "On This Day" (not case-sensitive). If the page does exist and contains that heading, it will transclude the page and observe the "noinclude" tags. (That last part was the most difficult.)

I will also add a "the" feature to the {{Format FR date}} template so it will optionally add "the" in front of the date. The way the Main Page is now, it will say "the Deadwinter Day" when printing out the common name of Midwinter. I should be able to fix that, unless there is a case I haven't considered yet.

Moviesign (talk) 01:58, February 10, 2014 (UTC)

I know I have basically stated the same statement four or five times on this forum... I will say it again... Awesome work :)
- Darkwynters (talk) 02:21, February 10, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. It's actually pretty fun too. :)

I've decided to use the sortkey of the category for the day-of-the-year number (from 1 to 366). It's the easiest way to make sure a calendar page, or any range of dates, comes out in the proper order. I've done the first two months so far. Also, pages with actual factoids in them, and not just boilerplate, will need a section heading entitled "On This Day" in order for the {{On this day}} template to pick it up. Do not put this heading in an otherwise empty page.

Moviesign (talk) 06:42, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

Hang on, I'll motor over the categories with the bot and update the sortkeys.

I've been manufacturing blank day pages, a month or two here and there.

What format do you want "On This Day" to be in? Would "==On this day...==" be fine?

— BadCatMan (talk) 09:33, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

That would be a big help. Please zero pad them so they sort the same alphabetically as they do numerically (001, 002,...,366). The 6 festival days will have to be numbered in their proper place in the calendar of course.

Currently, the template looks for an equals sign, followed by any amount of white space, followed by "on this day" (case insensitive), followed by any amount of white space, followed by an equals sign. I didn't put an ellipsis in there because none of the factoids begin with an ellipsis, but I can change the regexp to look for three dots if you'd like. Edit: Oh, and don't put the heading on pages with no content, just the ones with at least one factoid. Thanks!

Moviesign (talk) 13:58, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

I covered up to Mirtul 30 with that sortkey format, taking us up to all five completed months. That included the festival days, Midwinter and Greengrass. Check the pages done so far and see what you think.

I also included the notice, but it came out oddly on standard article pages, such as Midwinter and Greengrass. If these are to be merged into standard articles, then maybe we should indent and italicise them on a separate line? I'll update that next chance I get.

Is zero white space fine? I don't bother putting spaces in myself. I'll also have the bot update next time, before moving on with the rest of the year.

For these, I run the bot semi-manually, or semi-automatically, since the format is a bit variable and you've already done the holy day pages. I've been updating the sortkeys by hand.

— BadCatMan (talk) 08:04, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the bot work. I'm still wrestling with the format so that both the {{On this day}} template and a full calendar will look nice. The problem seems to be too much vertical whitespace in the first and dates absorbing other dates in the second.

For the notice, I was thinking maybe we should replace it with a template like {{nofootnotes}} or {{FA}}. That way it is set off by a box and we could change the wording in just one place rather than 366. A small graphic of a calendar would be cool. The template could even take the day-of-the-year as an argument and generate the category for the page. I should have thought of it sooner. How's that sound? Edit: I made a quick example. See Hammer 1.

Zero white space is fine. Both ==On This Day== and == On This Day == should work.

Moviesign (talk) 14:27, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Not a big deal and this is totally OCD... the category for these pages is Category:Calendar date... but most of the wiki categories are plural... like Calendar dates... again not a problem... maybe a bot fix... just a thought... and again, great work guys :)
- Darkwynters (talk) 00:02, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

If nobody has any objections to my {{Datepage}} template, then once it is in place, we can change them all at once :)
Moviesign (talk) 03:38, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Awesome :)
- Darkwynters (talk) 05:41, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

With a little help from Wikia support, I think I have a working {{On this day}} template and a working Calendar page that shows only the dates with factoids. I'm still working on a Full calendar page that shows every date regardless of content. I have edited all the files in the month of Hammer and (I believe) the major holidays, solstices, and equinoxes. If those of you with bots could continue the work using those pages as examples, that would be a huge help. Mainly, the {{datepage}} template needs to replace the old banner and the day-of-the-year used as an argument. For example, Alturiak 1 should be {{datepage|032}} (The leading zero is important). The template automatically adds the category, so all hand-placed Category:Calendar date category may be deleted.

Here are the ranges for the months, if you need them:

  1. Hammer 001 – 030 (already done)
    • Midwinter 031
  2. Alturiak 032 – 061
  3. Ches 062 – 091
  4. Tarsakh 092 – 121
    • Greengrass 122
  5. Mirtul 123 – 152
  6. Kythorn 153 – 182
  7. Flamerule 183 – 212
    • Midsummer 213
    • Shieldmeet 214
  8. Eleasis 215 – 244
  9. Eleint 245 – 274
    • Highharvestide 275
  10. Marpenoth 276 – 305
  11. Uktar 306 – 335
    • Feast of the Moon 336
  12. Nightal 337 – 366

Thank you in advance, anyone who pitches in :)

Moviesign (talk) 03:35, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

It looks fine to me. But just so I don't have to keep going back and forth over them, please point me to one perfect day page I can use as a model.

Changing "Calendar date" to "Calendar dates" is no problem with the bot.

— BadCatMan (talk) 11:42, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Hammer 1 is a good example for a page with content. Hammer 2 is a typical page without content. The {{datepage}} template takes care of the category, so just delete any Category:Calendar date that you find. Once the template is on all the pages, we rename it in the template and it will fix all 366 pages simultaneously. Thanks!
Moviesign (talk) 14:19, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I've updated everything through to Mirtul 30. Please check some of them to ensure they're coming out right. The remaining pages still need to be created and/or updated.
— BadCatMan (talk) 13:52, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

I left a message on User:UnseenServantBot. It seems the newline after the ==On This Day== heading is important to have the page be recognized by DPL for the User:Moviesign/Calendar. I edited Ches 30 and inserted the newline and now it shows up in the Calendar. Tarsakh 1 does not have the newline and does not show up. I'm very sorry about this, I didn't know it was necessary until a few minutes ago. I have a PC laptop now—perhaps I can get a bot up and running on it and do some of this.
Moviesign (talk) 14:38, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I've corrected these semi-automatically, inserting new lines between the section heading and </noinclude>. Let me know how it looks now.
— BadCatMan (talk) 10:43, February 18, 2014 (UTC)

Much improved! Lots more dates are showing up on the calendar now. Thanks!

BTW, I posted a message on the Wikia forum here about the problem I'm having with excluding the references from the calendar page. We might see some unknown Users taking a poke at some of these pages if they decide to look into the problem.

Moviesign (talk) 13:13, February 18, 2014 (UTC)

Update: I've now covered Kythorn and Flamerule. Sorry, Movie, but this is much trickier because you made a bunch of pages first, in both updating them and slotting the new and old sets together. I can't just go through them automatically or semi-automatically, but have to keep checking and correcting the order. So, it will take much longer than planned.
— BadCatMan (talk) 11:58, February 20, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I wasn't thinking ahead. I can do a few, since you're practically doing them by hand anyway.
Moviesign (talk) 13:12, February 20, 2014 (UTC)

I finished off the rest of the date pages. BCM, I would really appreciate it if you would check the Calendar against your list of holy days. I have a feeling that I misinterpreted things like "the start of Spring" to be the equinox when it really should be Greengrass (right?). Hopefully, there are very few errors, but I'm sure it's not perfect. Thanks for all the bot work!
Moviesign (talk) 03:05, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Ah, it looks like doing it by hand was quicker and easier in the end.

Comparing against my list...

How did you pick the "four seasonal festivals" for Loviatar's Rite of Pain and Purity? I'd assumed Midwinter, Greengrass, Midsummer, and Higharvestide.

Talos: I had assumed Calling Down the Thunder occurred every festival, but looking again, it appears to be one undated festival.

Sseth: I had assumed the Sagacious Slumber for Midwinter, but this seems to be rather less well-defined. Similar with Sheela Peryroyl.

Segojan Earthcaller: DD says "the first day of each new season", so I took this to be Ches 1, Kythorn 1, Eleint 1, Nightal 1, but you went for the equinoxes and solstices. I think you may be right here.

The Feast of the Moon should appear after Uktar. Trying again:

  • Uktar 306 – 335
  • Feast of the Moon 336
  • Nightal 337 – 366

Okay, I've fixed it now.

But you've got everything I have, plus those I missed and got wrong. :)

— BadCatMan (talk) 10:45, February 22, 2014 (UTC)

EEK, I have no idea how I slotted Feast of the Moon in the wrong place. I'm going to fix my full list above in case someone doesn't read down this far. Thank you for fixing that.

I think you are right about the "four seasonal festivals"; they take place in the middle of the seasons, roughly, and have names. The equinoxes and solstices are traditionally the start of the seasons in our world, but that doesn't preclude the author stating it incorrectly. I would go with that until a newer source contradicts. (edit: Part of the confusion arises from page 77 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd edition where it states Greengrass is "the official beginning of spring", which is clearly not the case when you look at the diagram on the same page—Greengrass is right in the middle of the Spring quadrant. Same thing on page 155 of the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide. I'm going to change the Loviatar entries to the festivals you listed above. Feast of the Moon is clearly not about autumn.)

How do you want to style the specific events from the last pages of The Grand History of the Realms? Something like "In 1365 DR, blah blah"? I think it reads well when it shows up under the heading "On this day:". Are those Years pages still in need of a rewrite?

Moviesign (talk) 13:19, February 22, 2014 (UTC)

I've never quite been sure when the seasons begin: you get the diagram, you get the common names of the months, and they seem to suggest different things. The 1e and 2e campaign settings give more info about the seasons, formally linking the months to ours as you have done, and saying Higharvestide heralds the beginning of fall (half a month late) and the Feast of the Moon the coming of winter (half a month early, at least). Eh, you've got a better handle on all this than me.

The Years pages certainly still need checking, and almost all rewriting, from 260 DR to the present. That will get harder in the campaign years after 1356 DR as so much more happens in them. The years 1372 DR to 1375 have daily events in GHotR that could really fill out the On This Day entries. Those from other years will need more searching. But yes, "In 1365 DR, blah blah..." would be the best way of putting it.

— BadCatMan (talk) 12:24, February 23, 2014 (UTC)

After asking for help from the DPL designers, I have learned that we don't have to use <noinclude> tags on our date pages—some fancy applications of regular expressions did the trick. I have rewritten the User:Moviesign/Template:On this day template and my own User:Moviesign/Calendar3 to work with pages that do not use <noinclude>s. Unfortunately, this means going through all the date pages again, removing all the noinclude tags and inserting the ==On this day== on any page that doesn't have it (including the "empty" pages). Is this acceptable? We would have some empty pages with a heading on them and nothing else for content except the ==References== section—I would reword the {{datepage}} template appropriately. I'm sorry to bother the bots again, but this is a much cleaner approach to the date pages. I can insert the "On this day" heading if that makes it easier. Please let me know.
Moviesign (talk) 02:18, March 13, 2014 (UTC)

Knocking out the noinclude tags is certainly possible: just find and delete <noinclude></noinclude>, <noinclude>, and </noinclude>. That would leave some spaces to clean up, however. I can also add ==On This Day== to any page that doesn't have it, but placement may be a bit trickier. I'll see what I can do after this.

— BadCatMan (talk) 12:15, March 14, 2014 (UTC)

I have to do them separately, but both are easy to do with the bot. I can even run it on automatic, as I am now. Fortunately, the wiki hides extra spaces when it shows the page, so they're a non-issue as well.

Finally botting like I should. :)

— BadCatMan (talk) 12:36, March 14, 2014 (UTC)


So, today we had Greengrass. It was introduced with " is Greengrass, or Greengrass." which seems a bit redundant. :) Is it possible to produce only a single name for a day when they're both the same?

Also, the list of events got rather long, shifting down the features replacing the first view of the main page with a wall of text. Would it be worthwhile introducing, say, an AM/PM switch on busy days like this?

— BadCatMan (talk) 08:16, May 2, 2014 (UTC)

A better solution would be to come up with alternate names for the holidays that currently don't have them :) I'll put the elvish name for Shieldmeet in, but if anyone knows of a common or colloquial name for Greengrass, or Highharvestide, please post.

As for the wall of text, I might be able to limit how much it puts out and put a "More..." link for people to follow.

Do you want an "archive" page for the On This Day feature? User:Moviesign/Calendar could be a candidate. If you want it without references, see User:Moviesign/Calendar3.

Moviesign (talk) 12:48, May 2, 2014 (UTC)
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