(some coppers from me) |
(nocat) |
||
(12 intermediate revisions by 3 users not shown) | |||
Line 21: | Line 21: | ||
My suggestion would be to make the navbox collapsible, so that it could be expanded to show the full imagemap to those who want to see and stay compact for those who don't need to. |
My suggestion would be to make the navbox collapsible, so that it could be expanded to show the full imagemap to those who want to see and stay compact for those who don't need to. |
||
|~ ''[[User:Lhynard|Lhynard]]'' ([[User talk:Lhynard|talk]]) 03:42, June 13, 2018 (UTC)}} |
|~ ''[[User:Lhynard|Lhynard]]'' ([[User talk:Lhynard|talk]]) 03:42, June 13, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post |
||
+ | |Thanks for the suggestion. I have just changed the template to make the image collapsible. |
||
+ | |||
+ | The picture itself still seems a little too big, though. I will try to make it smaller and see if it looks better (without making the detail so small that it feels like the reader has to snipe the right pixel in order to reach it). |
||
+ | |[[User:Sirwhiteout|Sirwhiteout]] ([[User talk:Sirwhiteout|talk]]) 16:02, June 13, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post| |
||
+ | I don't think that we want to make the image much smaller; as it is, it is already hard to read the labels. |
||
+ | |||
+ | One way to reduce the size is also to use horizontal labels: |
||
+ | '''[[Transitive Planes]]:''' [[Astral Plane]] • [[Ethereal plane]] |
||
+ | …instead of : |
||
+ | '''[[Transitive Planes]]'''<br />[[Astral Plane]] • [[Ethereal plane]] |
||
+ | |||
+ | I do this on occasion to keep the navboxes from growing too large. See, for example: |
||
+ | {{Devils|nocat=true}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | I wonder if we should have a single cosmology navbox with three headings, each collapsible—Great Wheel, World Tree, and World Axis. The links of all three would be hidden until expanded, and all could have an image map. |
||
+ | |~ ''[[User:Lhynard|Lhynard]]'' ([[User talk:Lhynard|talk]]) 18:05, June 13, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post |
||
+ | |Ok, here is the new template: |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Cosmologies}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | I had to change the code a little bit in the existing [[World Axis cosmology/Imagemap]] and [[World Tree cosmology/Imagemap]], namely removing the '''frame''' or '''thumb''' parameters in the image call sequence and setting '''desc none''' as one of the imagemap parameters, otherwise it would render the image in a weird position or with an inappropriate size. This may change the way these pictures are displayed in their respective pages, but if these very same pictures appear in the navbox, then it might be redundant anyway. |
||
+ | |||
+ | Thoughts? If this meets general approval, I can go ahead and put it in the respective planar pages. |
||
+ | |[[User:Sirwhiteout|Sirwhiteout]] ([[User talk:Sirwhiteout|talk]]) 01:30, June 14, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post|Excellent work!|—[[User:Moviesign|Moviesign]] ([[User talk:Moviesign|talk]]) 01:43, June 14, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post|I love it!|~ ''[[User:Lhynard|Lhynard]]'' ([[User talk:Lhynard|talk]]) 04:25, June 14, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post |
||
+ | |Thanks for the feedback! I am now in the process of adding the navbox to the pages. |
||
+ | |||
+ | [[User:Lhynard|Lhynard]], your comment almost made me spill my coffee. Well played, sir, well played. :) |
||
+ | |||
+ | Which reminds me: para-elemental and quasi-elemental planes have no pages of their own. Maybe some of them do deserve it. The [[Quasi-Elemental Plane of Radiance]] has a ''very'' important presence in the skies of [[Toril]]. |
||
+ | |[[User:Sirwhiteout|Sirwhiteout]] ([[User talk:Sirwhiteout|talk]]) 14:04, June 14, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post| |
||
+ | Ha ha. I was worried that no one would get it. |
||
+ | |||
+ | I agree about articles for the paras and quasis. There is plenty of information out there about them. I think the biggest issue will be consistency with spelling/hyphenation. |
||
+ | |~ ''[[User:Lhynard|Lhynard]]'' ([[User talk:Lhynard|talk]]) 15:02, June 14, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post |
||
+ | |So, regarding spelling and hyphenation, most sources that do mention these planes are 1e and 2e (Planescape) ones. Non-Planescape sources (1e and Spelljammer) seem to use hyphenated forms as the standard (Quasi-Elemental Plane of Radiance, etx.), while Planescape sources do not hyphenate (Quasielemental Plane of Radiance). The ''[[Monstrous Compendium Planescape Appendix III]]'' mentions the "quasiplane of Vacuum" as well. |
||
+ | |||
+ | The ''[[Manual of the Planes 3rd edition]]'' calls them "paraplanes" and "quasi-planes", but does not list them individually with any further detail, so not much help there. |
||
+ | |||
+ | I don't know of any 4e source that mentions these planes (which isn't unexpected, since 4e does its own thing) and 5e calls some of them by different names entirely. However, the ''[[Dungeon Master's Guide 5th edition]]'' only mentions what used to be the paraelemental planes, but leaves out the quasielemental ones. |
||
+ | |||
+ | So I think in the end we have the following situation: if we want to apply the latest-edition naming convention, the main pages of the twelve mixed planes should be called the following: |
||
+ | |||
+ | * Paraelemental planes: |
||
+ | ** [[Great Conflagration]] (old [[Para-Elemental Plane of Smoke]]) |
||
+ | ** [[Frostfell (plane)]] (old [[Para-Elemental Plane of Ice]]) |
||
+ | ** [[Swamp of Oblivion]] (old [[Para-Elemental Plane of Ooze]]) |
||
+ | ** [[Fountains of Creation]] (old [[Para-Elemental Plane of Magma]]) |
||
+ | * Quasielemental planes: |
||
+ | ** [[Quasielemental Plane of Lightning]] |
||
+ | ** [[Quasielemental Plane of Radiance]] |
||
+ | ** [[Quasielemental Plane of Minerals]] |
||
+ | ** [[Quasielemental Plane of Steam]] |
||
+ | ** [[Quasielemental Plane of Vacuum]] |
||
+ | ** [[Quasielemental Plane of Ash]] |
||
+ | ** [[Quasielemental Plane of Dust]] |
||
+ | ** [[Quasielemental Plane of Salt]] |
||
+ | |||
+ | Since most of these pages already exist as redirects anyway, it would be quite easy to do. |
||
+ | |||
+ | Thoughts? |
||
+ | |[[User:Sirwhiteout|Sirwhiteout]] ([[User talk:Sirwhiteout|talk]]) 20:56, June 14, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post|Works for me!|~ ''[[User:Lhynard|Lhynard]]'' ([[User talk:Lhynard|talk]]) 21:04, June 14, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post|According to the dictionary, the word quasi, when used as a combining form, should always be followed by a hyphen. Another argument in favor of a hyphen is that non-English speakers may not automatically know where to break the word quasielemental. My vote is for the hyphenated form. It just looks better. :)|—[[User:Moviesign|Moviesign]] ([[User talk:Moviesign|talk]]) 22:30, June 14, 2018 (UTC)}} |
||
+ | |||
+ | {{Forum post |
||
+ | |All other things being equal, I would always go with the orthographically correct form. |
||
+ | |||
+ | Ooh, would that be the reason why the 3e ''Manual of the Planes'' writes "paraplanes" and "quasi-planes"? |
||
+ | |||
+ | Besides the most recent edition thing, I just realized that I was also inclined to choose the non-hyphenated form because a few years ago an orthographic reform in the Portuguese language (aiming at bridging the gap between European and Brazilian grammar, go figure) decided to drop the hyphen in many cases (quasi-elemental would have been one of them, in fact). |
||
+ | |||
+ | Anyway. So, hyphenated then? :) |
||
+ | |[[User:Sirwhiteout|Sirwhiteout]] ([[User talk:Sirwhiteout|talk]]) 00:58, June 15, 2018 (UTC)}} |
Latest revision as of 04:31, 13 December 2020
Use the following template for a nicely presented post:
{{Forum post|Write your message here!|~~~~}}
I have just finished creating a navbox for the {{Great Wheel cosmology}}. I also made an image map using the illustration from the Player's Handbook 5th edition as a base. Comments and suggestions are, as always, most welcome.
I started this little project with the goal of including the template in the footers of all the relevant planes that are linked by it, but then the question of other cosmologies came across. Because most of these planes exist in multiple cosmologies, should we create a separate navbox for each particular cosmology and then include all at the bottom of each plane?
Since the Great Wheel is the standard cosmology in 5e, it seems reasonable that this navbox be at least the first one to be made, but I'd like to hear people's opinions before adding it to all the other planar pages.
Well, I think it looks beautiful, and I like imagemaps and navboxes.
On the other hand, I feel like it is obnoxiously large.
As far as other navboxes, I think that every plane should have a navbox for each of the major cosmologies. However, that too would take up far too much space.
My suggestion would be to make the navbox collapsible, so that it could be expanded to show the full imagemap to those who want to see and stay compact for those who don't need to.
The picture itself still seems a little too big, though. I will try to make it smaller and see if it looks better (without making the detail so small that it feels like the reader has to snipe the right pixel in order to reach it).
I don't think that we want to make the image much smaller; as it is, it is already hard to read the labels.
One way to reduce the size is also to use horizontal labels:
Transitive Planes: Astral Plane • Ethereal plane
…instead of :
Transitive Planes
Astral Plane • Ethereal plane
I do this on occasion to keep the navboxes from growing too large. See, for example:
Least: Lemure • Nupperibo • Spinagon
Lesser: Abishai (Black • Blue • Green • Red • White) • Barbazu • Erinyes • Excruciarch • Ghargatula • Hamatula (Stony devil) • Kocrachon • Merregon • Osyluth • War devil • Xerfilstyx
Greater: Amnizu • Cornugon • Gelugon • Logokron • Narzugon • Orthon • Paeliryon • Pit fiend
Baatezu of unknown rank: Advespa • Dogai • Gulthir • Jerul
Araton • Burning devil • Fimbrul devil • Hellcat • Hellwasp • Imp (Bloodbag • Book • Euphoric • Filth) • Kalabon • Kyton • Misfortune devil • Seared devil • Shocktroop devil • Soulrider devil • Stitched devil • Succubus • Tar devil • Vizier devil
I wonder if we should have a single cosmology navbox with three headings, each collapsible—Great Wheel, World Tree, and World Axis. The links of all three would be hidden until expanded, and all could have an image map.
Prime Material plane • Feywild • Shadowfell • Fugue Plane
Transitive Planes: Astral Plane • Ethereal plane
Inner Planes: Elemental Plane of Air • Elemental Plane of Water • Elemental Plane of Earth • Elemental Plane of Fire • Elemental Chaos
Para-Elemental Planes: Frostfell • Swamp of Oblivion • Fountains of Creation • Great Conflagration
Quasi-Elemental Planes: Lightning • Radiance • Minerals • Steam • Vacuum • Ash • Dust • Salt
Outlands: Sigil
Outer Planes: Arcadia • Mount Celestia • Bytopia • Elysium • Beastlands • Arborea • Ysgard • Limbo •
Pandemonium • Abyss (Layers) • Carceri • Hades • Gehenna • Nine Hells • Acheron • Mechanus
Energy planes: Positive Energy plane • Negative Energy plane
Planar Pathways: Infinite Staircase • Oceanus • Mount Olympus • Styx • Yggdrasil
Far Realm
Prime Material plane • Cynosure • Fugue Plane
Transitive Planes: Astral Plane • Ethereal plane • Plane of Shadow • Spirit World
Celestial Outer Planes: Arvandor • Brightwater • Dwarfhome • Dweomerheart • Gates of the Moon • Golden Hills • Green Fields • House of Knowledge • House of the Triad
Fiendish Outer Planes: Abyss (Layers) • Barrens of Doom and Despair • Blood Rift • Clangor • Deep Caverns • Demonweb Pits • Fated Depths • Fury's Heart • Hammergrim • Nine Hells • Nishrek • Supreme Throne
Neutral Outer Planes: Dragon Eyrie • Heliopolis • House of Nature • Jotunheim • Warrior's Rest
Inner Planes: Elemental Plane of Air • Elemental Plane of Earth • Elemental Plane of Fire • Elemental Plane of Water • Positive Energy plane • Negative Energy plane
Planar Pathways: Infinite Staircase • River of Blood • World Tree
Far Realm
Prime Material plane
Fundamental planes: Astral Sea • Elemental Chaos
Astral dominions: Arvandor • Banehold • Celestia • Cynosure • Deep Wilds • Demonweb Pits • Dismal Caverns • Dwarfhome • Eternal Sun • Fugue Plane • Gates of the Moon • Green Fields • House of Knowledge • Nine Hells • Nishrek • Supreme Throne • Towers of Night • Tu'narath • Warrior's Rest
Elemental realms: Abyss (Layers) • City of Brass • Cresting Spires • Fimbulwinter • Hidden Realm • Muspelheim • Root Hold • Sky Home • Steading • Thraotor • Undying Pyre • Zerthadlun
Parallel planes: Feywild • Shadowfell
Anomalous planes: Far Realm
I had to change the code a little bit in the existing World Axis cosmology/Imagemap and World Tree cosmology/Imagemap, namely removing the frame or thumb parameters in the image call sequence and setting desc none as one of the imagemap parameters, otherwise it would render the image in a weird position or with an inappropriate size. This may change the way these pictures are displayed in their respective pages, but if these very same pictures appear in the navbox, then it might be redundant anyway.
Thoughts? If this meets general approval, I can go ahead and put it in the respective planar pages.
Lhynard, your comment almost made me spill my coffee. Well played, sir, well played. :)
Which reminds me: para-elemental and quasi-elemental planes have no pages of their own. Maybe some of them do deserve it. The Quasi-Elemental Plane of Radiance has a very important presence in the skies of Toril.
Ha ha. I was worried that no one would get it.
I agree about articles for the paras and quasis. There is plenty of information out there about them. I think the biggest issue will be consistency with spelling/hyphenation.
The Manual of the Planes 3rd edition calls them "paraplanes" and "quasi-planes", but does not list them individually with any further detail, so not much help there.
I don't know of any 4e source that mentions these planes (which isn't unexpected, since 4e does its own thing) and 5e calls some of them by different names entirely. However, the Dungeon Master's Guide 5th edition only mentions what used to be the paraelemental planes, but leaves out the quasielemental ones.
So I think in the end we have the following situation: if we want to apply the latest-edition naming convention, the main pages of the twelve mixed planes should be called the following:
- Paraelemental planes:
- Quasielemental planes:
Since most of these pages already exist as redirects anyway, it would be quite easy to do.
Thoughts?
Ooh, would that be the reason why the 3e Manual of the Planes writes "paraplanes" and "quasi-planes"?
Besides the most recent edition thing, I just realized that I was also inclined to choose the non-hyphenated form because a few years ago an orthographic reform in the Portuguese language (aiming at bridging the gap between European and Brazilian grammar, go figure) decided to drop the hyphen in many cases (quasi-elemental would have been one of them, in fact).
Anyway. So, hyphenated then? :)