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(Awesome!!!)
(ditto :D one question...)
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Fricken love it... wonderfully wicked work, BadCat!!!
 
Fricken love it... wonderfully wicked work, BadCat!!!
 
|[[User:Darkwynters|Darkwynters]] ([[User talk:Darkwynters|talk]]) 18:18, February 5, 2013 (UTC)}}
 
|[[User:Darkwynters|Darkwynters]] ([[User talk:Darkwynters|talk]]) 18:18, February 5, 2013 (UTC)}}
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That looks awesome :) One question: are there supposed to be two "Latest Releases" sections?
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|—[[User:Moviesign|Moviesign]] ([[User talk:Moviesign|talk]]) 20:55, February 5, 2013 (UTC)}}

Revision as of 20:55, 5 February 2013

Forums: Helping Hand > New front page!

Use the following template for a nicely presented post:

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Let's face it: our front page is very dated and rubbish-looking nowadays. I've been looking at some of the other wikis and I reckon we can do better. I have put together User:Fw190a8/New front page as a starting point.

Unfortunately I don't know how to get rid of the Wikia sidebar, so the boxes that are supposed to go in the right column are actually appearing beneath the main column. It's a bit of a pain because it means it's hard to see what the page will eventually look like.

I'd like suggestions for images for the slideshow, and also the information we put in the boxes like which novels to have, which this and that to have, etc. Also, general feedback!

Fw190a8 23:39, October 7, 2012 (UTC)


Unfortunately, a recent Wikia update screwed main pages for every wiki, at least it does for in the Monobook layout. It looks better in the Wikia layout, but I don't care to use that. I fiddled about trying to fix FRW's main page, with no joy.

The slideshow seems a little, I dunno, busy to me. It may dominate or seem repetitive to regular users. I generally prefer a simpler and sedate website where things stay still. :)

Some ideas nicked from other wikis:

  • Link to a featured article (that's not always Shadowdale) that's big, fully referenced, properly formatted, has some pictures, and displays exactly what we're aiming for here. This could be cycled every week or month, depending on the number we have. This should have a picture and a short summary.
  • A regularly updated list of recent novels, sourcebooks, etc., with cover image, blurb, and basic current publication details, etc, with links to their respective pages. This might encourage visitors to stick in new information. This would need to be maintained by someone following the latest output of WotC, though we shouldn't try to be a news-site.
  • A similar example of an older work, as a look at the past and as demonstration, like a featured article for source works.
  • "Did you know?" factoids could be fun, if regularly cycled and updated.
  • Picture of the day.
  • Quote of the day.
  • A big logo up the top for brand recognition.
BadCatMan (talk) 03:05, October 8, 2012 (UTC)


I think the slider may be a bit too big, in relation to other elements of the screen. If you could shrink it a bit (and possibly make it taller, so the Dragon magazine images don't seem squished), it might look a bit better. As for rotating "featured article" and "did you know?" boxes, I can think of way to do that automatically so that it doesn't get stale because we forget to rotate it manually.
Cronje (talkcontribs) 03:28, October 8, 2012 (UTC)


Thanks for the feedback so far. Obviously the images for the dragon magazine covers aren't suitable, as we'd need to find images that were exactly 660x330. The size of the slider is not editable unfortunately.

I like BadCatMan's suggestions, but they mostly seem to involve rotating content, and the issue's just one of resources. It will stagnate if we have a period of relatively little editing on the wiki, which does happen quite often.

However, if someone could make a 'random' thing or something that automatically rotates reguarly, like Cronje suggests, that would be perfect!

Fw190a8 04:13, October 8, 2012 (UTC)


I don't know about making it random, but Wikia uses the ParserFunctions extension located on the MediaWiki site. Assuming we want to rotate it weekly, the easiest method would be to create 53 mini-articles as sub-pages of the Main Page (for the featured articles, these would be at Main Page/Featured00, Main Page/Featured01, etc.) and then use the ParserFunctions {{#time:W}} function.

{{#time:W}} returns the week of the year (this week's number is 13), so on the Main Page, just include {{Main Page/Featured{{#time:W}}}}, which would transclude the Featured## page onto the Main Page. Note that if the number is only a single digit long (1-9), it needs to have a 0 in front of it (01-09)) for the code to work.

Of course, this will take a lot of hard work. On the other hand, the sub-pages don't need to very long; they only need to include a link to the main article. So long as they're written professionally and, as BadCatMan mentioned, properly referenced, it should do well.

Then, of course, we repeat the process for the "Did you know?" box.
Cronje (talkcontribs) 05:37, October 8, 2012 (UTC)


I dunno if your request for general feedback includes a wikinoob like me, but:

I like the idea of changing the format and/or colors of the front page, even if not the contents of the page, every once in a while... it keeps my eyes from getting bored, and a change of scenery is generally a good thing. There's a lot to be said for knowing where to go to find what we're looking for, though, so maybe not too much shuffling things around; just (for example) a shift of color palette and main artwork once a month.

I'm not a huge fan of slideshows, unless it's easy to pause/stop it. I like taking my time to look, without having to manually click on the thumbnail to get the picture back when it scrolls away. And when I'm done looking at all the pics, the periodic scrolling is distracting while I'm reading the rest of the page, so I usually try to push it off the top of the page. *shrug* Probably just me.

BadCatMan is my hero, with the point about the Shadowdale article. As a noob, this is exactly what I need: one article that shows how to do all the spiffy things that the wiki allows us to do. I would be perfectly content if this article never changed. I mean, if/when you have a bunch of articles that fit this description, cool, change it up whenever... but from where I'm sitting, the value of drawing everyone's attention to a Featured Article is in having that article show off everything the wiki can do/be. Yea, experienced users might ignore that little corner of the page, but there's something for them too...

"Did You Know" factoids are brilliant. Maybe a collection of three little blurbs... doesn't have to be long. Alustriel's real name. The Simbul once hooked up with Lauzoril. Elminster was once a woman. If you can get a random script to do this somehow, then it could be three new facts every day, and there's probably two or three users who would log on every day just to read them... which means additional prompts for them to expand stubs or write new articles/comments or whatever. If they're only cycled once a week or less frequently than that, I think they would start to lose appeal for daily/semidaily users/updaters of the wiki, but maybe that's just my short attention span talking.

I totally agree that the wiki isn't a news channel, but I like the idea of having links to the three most recently published novels, to encourage us to expand the wiki. This would be a neat list to have. I would definitely check it out on a regular basis.

A quote of the day would also be cool, especially if it puts more links on the page.

Other than the factoids and the quote/pic of the day, which are probably too big of a headache if they can't be done by random script, I don't think very much of the front page needs to scroll/change... precisely because this isn't a news channel. General users come here for information, which means the goal to shoot for is to present clear and all-inclusive organization of information... the random blurbs are icing on the cake.

I don't know how scripts work here... but... can my browser execute the script each time I load the front page? As opposed to the site executing the script once per X days/whatever? So that I could just punch F5 and get a new quote and factoid? That would be pretty awesome.

Anyway, cool project, and sorry if this was just an admin discussion. :)
Wanderscribe (talk) 07:43, December 18, 2012 (UTC)


Of course it does, Wanderscribe. And I'm glad to be your hero, though I'm not sure why. :)

I had a play with the main page here at User:BadCatMan/Main Page, and looked at several wikias for ideas and education. It seemed easier to adjust the current main page rather than build a new one. I've moved both the logo and the Featured Article section to the centre column, where they can be more prominent and obvious. I also moved the Featured Media/Image upwards so it also gets a look in. Thus, all the contents, about, and community and technical pages have moved down a bit.

I've developed a "Did you know?" feature, based on that of Wookieepedia and other wikias. They say to take their trivia from the latest new articles, so I've copied that technique for now. It's based at Template:DidYouKnow. It's a manual system, so obviously it needs to kept up-to-date by hand regularly.

Thoughts, anyone? Obviously, it's a few minor changes.

Things for future work (for me, or interested others):

  • Condense the contents etc. sections, perhaps horizontally, so they take up less vertical space.
  • Look at code to cycle featured articles and images automatically.
BadCatMan (talk) 07:47, January 13, 2013 (UTC)


Looks great to me. I really like the scrolling quality of the new page and the logo. Though maybe have the Elminster image in the upper right corner like most of our pages have the infoboxes; just an idea, because I am not sure how the this would change the setup of the intro section... still awesome work :)

Darkwynters (talk) 17:07, January 13, 2013 (UTC)


This particular note isn't about "new page" ...just a minor addition.

In the Helping Out: Adding Content area, could/should we add a link to the category of posts that are currently slated to be deleted due to plagiarism? This would facilitate work on those articles by newer users like me, who might be inclined to edit the articles (ezmode), but not ambitious enough to search the categories list (tuff). I found it and bookmarked it... just sayin, I think it'd be cool, when someone logs on bored and not sure exactly what to contribute today, to put that link in front of them, so we can cut down on the pages being deleted. My bad, if there's already an easy link and I'm just blind. :D Wanderscribe (talk) 22:14, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Darkwynters: The image is already at the most upper right position it can be, and the same size as a regular infobox image (250 pixels). I'm a bit concerned about it; when the image changes, it will have a different vertical size, so the whole column will shift up and down every time it changes. Rather than find or make a batch of identically sized images, I think it would be better to put it down the bottom like some other wikias (or let Elminster continue being a permanent fixture of the main page, of course).

Wanderscribe: Sure. That would best be a part of the Helping Out section (which I think was a Wikia default), along with Stubs and Wanted Pages. However, I'm reluctant to advertise our plagiarism problem on the main page. :S Perhaps the wider category Category:Articles needing attention would be nicer. That includes everything plagiarised and other problems. Although, when I made the plagiarism template, I stopped it automatically filling up pages needing attention, so they're all currently in a subcategory. Perhaps we should fill Pages needing attention automatically, to make these pages easier to find.

If someone else wants to play with it, go ahead. I'll try some other ideas later.

BadCatMan (talk) 03:48, January 14, 2013 (UTC)


I had more of a play around with User:BadCatMan/Main Page. I've now got sections for a Featured Article (a quality in-universe article - ahem, my own), a Featured Source (a quality out-of-universe source-work article - okay, I also worked on it, I just go with what I know), and to make a show of representing new stuff, two Latest Releases. They won't cycle yet, they're just manually inserted placeholders so I could see how it looked and shaped up. I seem to have spent the half the day fiddling with alignments and spacing to make it look neat and nice. They're kind of tricky.

I went with the philosophy that lore and subject materials should be our focus (of course), so I've placed the Featured Article, Featured Source, New Releases, Did You Know, and Feature Image in the central column, front and centre. All the wiki information, links, contents and such were secondary, so I put them in the right column, to be effectively a side-bar. I haven't touched the text of that yet. For now, the Helping Out section is way down the bottom, but that could go into the right column as well.

I like the result, it seems much more organised and focused on lore. Let me know what you think about spacing and website design issues, I'm not really good at that and it's been many years since I managed a website or used HTML in any important way.

Since Did You Know was working and up-to-date, I've stuck it on the main page as well.

BadCatMan (talk) 13:32, January 14, 2013 (UTC)


Wow... I love the way your Main Page looks... you have my vote :)

Darkwynters (talk) 13:51, January 14, 2013 (UTC)


More updates! As before, at User:BadCatMan/Main Page. I shifted some more stuff around and tweaked some sizes, mainly because I felt things looked better and to bring more featured information upwards to be more prominent, and to lose white-space.

I removed the official logo. I noticed that every other wikia I looked at didn't use its franchise's logo, and realised there was probably a very good legal reason for this. :o So, I found the similar FRW logo used on the regular wikia/oasis skin and used that.

I also noticed other wikias didn't use external links on their main pages. I figured it would be a good idea if we made visitors enter out wiki first rather than sending them on. :) Hence, I removed the link to the Wizards of the Coast site.

I overhauled and added to the introductory and contents sections, to make them neater and more focused on three separate areas of the wiki: Realmslore, Media, and Crunch. It got long enough that I think a bald list (just the headings, no explanation) might look neater or briefer.

I just need to work on the Helping out section, giving more detail to new users. Then I think it's done! :D I'd like to distinguish the right column better from the central column, by putting a box around it, but that's more of a code issue that can wait. I also need to work on rotating featured article/source templates, but that can also wait.

Let me know what you think, like or dislike, or any more ideas.

— BadCatMan (talk) 12:07, January 20, 2013 (UTC)


BadCat... I love the beginning of the page... LOVE IT... it does look a little strange after the Elminster image, because the page alignment changes... I am not sure you can fix this, but maybe you could center Eli's picture with the quote... or move the quote above his pic... Actually, since this is a test page... how does the page look if you make the sections after Did you know organized like the top of the page?

Darkwynters (talk) 18:20, January 23, 2013 (UTC)


It's easy to move the lower sections to the central column, just cut-and-past. I just dumped the extra sections down the bottom to get them out of the way until I worked on them (which I've started on now). I also felt it would look nice to have the soon-to-be much wider Help and Wikia sections extend across the page and close off the columns above. Mainly, I was borrowing the layout from another wikia, since it was simple, what I was going for, and I was familiar with it.

I'm not sure what you mean by the quote with El's picture. Do you mean the caption "Elminster Aumar, the Sage of Shadowdale"? They should already be centred. Or do you mean to stretch the Featured Image across the page? I'd left it in the central column to group it with the other presented Realmslore.

— BadCatMan (talk) 00:49, January 24, 2013 (UTC)


BadCat, hmmm... I guess I was just curious why the picture does not line up with the lower sections after, "Knowledge of our world...", but now that I know you are still working on those lower sections... I guess I have nothing to say, because I love everything above Elminster's picture :)

Darkwynters (talk) 04:20, January 24, 2013 (UTC)


Ah. The Main Page by default consists of three panels: a top left column (the wider, main one), a top right column (the sidebar), and a bottom section that goes all the way across. The Featured Image section (with the Elminster pic) is located in the left column, hence it only extends that far and stops before it gets to the right column, though the picture itself is centred within the left column. I could easily put it in the bottom section, and then it would extend across the whole screen, effectively centring it across the whole page. See the Star Trek Memory Beta wiki for how it would look.

However, my plan was to have all featured material in the left column, contents in the right, and wiki-related stuff at the bottom (as I have it now). That's why the Featured Image is where it is. It would also ultimately mean less unused space by default, as the left column goes as long as it needs to then stops. Otherwise, we could get a big blank hole in the page, like on the Memory Beta wiki. Later, I'd like to fiddle with borders and backgrounds for each section. They could make the image placement less noticeable.

I've added a set of links for the Helping Out section and a brief introduction to editing at FRW and our policies. I've focused on addressing the problems we tend to get a lot of, such as copied text, homebrew, uncited info, and no explanation. Most wikis don't seem to go this much detail on the main page, but we get a lot of clueless noobs, so it seemed necessary. :) Hence it's kind of wordy.

I've also updated our Wikia Gaming footer to use the Dndfooter used by other D&D-based wikis. It's much more specifically relevant. Fun fact: both the Dark Sun and Greyhawk wikis stole our current main page, text and format. :)

Okay, I think I'm pretty much done as regards the text and layout. Everyone, please let me know if you have any queries, ideas or criticism about it. If people are in favour, I will replace the current Main Page with it. Bear in mind, the current version at User:BadCatMan/Main Page may have a misplaced right column in the Wikia/Oasis skin (I use Monobook). It should look better on the Main Page itself.

My future efforts will be to develop a system to cycle Featured Article, Featured Source, and Featured Image. I'll also look at placing borders, shading, and backgrounds to distinguish the boxes and pretty things up.

— BadCatMan (talk) 05:27, January 26, 2013 (UTC)


BadCat, fantastic work!!! You should write on both high admin FW and Hash's talk pages to see if we can get this high admin official :) You have seriously done some great and important work on this page... WELL DONE!!!

Darkwynters (talk) 06:25, January 26, 2013 (UTC)


Done.

And nicking code from other wikis wasn't as difficult as I thought. After playing around with background colours, borders and boxes, I've boxed out all the sections and added some background shading. This really distinguishes between the sections and panels, and better frames the Featured Image. See User:BadCatMan/Main Page/design (a different link from the white version). I hope that looks better for you, DW.

I brought back a colour scheme the wiki's main page had about five years ago (it was lost in a wikia update, it seems). I like it, it's like a sepia parchment. I'd like to get leathery brown in there somewhere as well. However, I prefer text on a white background, hence the white panels. Images also seem to sit better on white, especially if they have not-quite-white backgrounds or edges.

I think it looks lovely. :D

— BadCatMan (talk) 09:27, January 26, 2013 (UTC)


BadCat, man... the boxed outlines look very cool... this makes to Front page seem like a kobold compared to your giant of a new Main Page :)

Darkwynters (talk) 17:19, January 26, 2013 (UTC)


More faffing about colours, margins and general design. (I had to work outside the box for this post.)

First, for reference, Main Page used to look like this. The darker yellow-brown is "navajowhite" and the lighter is "papayawhip". I've adopted this colour scheme, for some continuity, because it suits the 3e FR logo, and it's a style I was aiming for, sepia and brown like old books and parchments.

I've got several slightly different finished products:

My slightly older whitespace version: User:BadCatMan/Main Page. This was just a draft for working with text and layout, but it really has too much whitespace and little differentiation between sections.

A later coloured effort: here. This has a very light theme.

Here's my current coloured version with nice even spacing: User:BadCatMan/Main Page/design. The border is a "groove" of "sienna". The old main page actually used that, but it was 2 pixels wide, so I've widened it for emphasis. I've added a wood brown background, and I think the darker colour brings out the panels better. I dunno. The effect I was going for is parchments on a wooden table, or notes stuck to an adventurers' noticeboard. :) This is my favourite.

I also tried the full sepia effect from the old main page. Here's my effort: User:BadCatMan/Main Page/design-sepia. It looks alright, but it's too brown for my liking, and the red/blue/purple link colours and pale blue quotes and Gaming section clash a bit with the pale yellow-brown.

Other colour schemes we could try are dark and light greys like it was carved in stone, or maybe a forest-like green and brown, or white and blues like ice. Anything that fit a fantasy world like FR. But I wouldn't want to change it more than once a year. — BadCatMan (talk) 12:54, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Crap. They really only look good in the Monobook skin, and are all wonky in the Wikia/Oasis skins (I ugh, I never work with them) or a widescreen browser window in Monobook. I'm going to have to keep working on the margins and padding measurements so they adjust. Back to the drawing board.
— BadCatMan (talk) 13:03, January 27, 2013 (UTC)


Done. Having a border or padding around the outside turned out to be incompatible with the Oasis/Wikia skin by any means I could determine. It seems the advert has to take precedence. :-( So, I've removed those and adjusted the margins and padding so it looks good in both Monobook and Oasis/Wikia.

I've found a way to stop the images flowing over later sections, so it should also look whatever your browser window size or whatever.

Please let me know if you find any more problems.

PS: Of course, it looks best in the Oasis/Wikia skin if you port it to the Main Page, since only that page can properly handle the margins.

— BadCatMan (talk) 11:29, January 28, 2013 (UTC)


Well, my only complaint with how your page stands as is is the little quote and welcome boxes position way under a load of other content. I think they should be under the banner at the top. Also, if they're positioned next to each other horizontally rather than vertically, that gets rid of some of the empty space which I don't particularly like to see on a main page. The contents box could just be a link or direction to the portals tab. Have to go now so I'll be back another time.
hashtalk 12:56, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


Ah, you must be using the regular Oasis/Wikia skin? Try looking at it in the old Monobook skin, everything lines up properly. It will look better in both skins when the page is uploaded to Main Page itself. Unfortunately, only the columns only display properly on the Main Page.

I've used the Portal links in most of the contents headers. It's bit ad hoc at the moment, but that requires extensive development or re-development of our internal organization and portal-type pages.

— BadCatMan (talk) 13:02, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


Gosh it's been a long time since I used the Monobook skin. You're quite right though, it does look a lot better using it.
hashtalk 13:26, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


Great. Do you mind if I upload it to the Main Page? I'm itching to put in in operation. :D

— BadCatMan (talk) 13:29, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


Go for it. I won't be able to see what it looks like in the wikia skin until Thursday at the earliest though.
hashtalk 13:48, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


Done! The new main page is now live. Everyone please let me know what you think now it's probably in place and aligned.

I'll post some details regarding operation later (it's late now).

— BadCatMan (talk) 15:34, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


Fricken love it... wonderfully wicked work, BadCat!!!

Darkwynters (talk) 18:18, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


That looks awesome :) One question: are there supposed to be two "Latest Releases" sections?

Moviesign (talk) 20:55, February 5, 2013 (UTC)