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Personally I would like to treat the Hordelands as a separate continent as far as categorizing goes (Faerun, Zakhara, Hordelands, Kara-Tur, etc), but I realize some overlap is involved in the "borders" between Faerun and the Hordelands.
Another suggestion would be to cease East and Northeast Faerun categorization along a solid boundary like the Jumpa River.
Thoughts?
The Hordelands seems physically large enough to be its own category, especially considering how different the cultures present in the Hordelands are from the rest of Faerun. Tricky subject!
But what to call it? The campaign setting book calls it all the Endless Waste, which seems fine to me, though the FRCS 3e changes it to Hordelands, of which the Endless Wastes are only a part. I imagine "Hordelands" are merely those areas dominated by the Tuigan, but it will have to be it.
That whole area is all rather hazy, with portions heavily in Faerûn and others in Kara-Tur (as one would expect). So it would be fair to categorise places in both, with Semphar in East Faerûn and in the Hordelands. Or West Hordelands maybe? Would it even need compass-point division?
- the Endless Wastes- northwest Hordelands near Rashemen and Thay
- the Great Amber Steppes- central Hordelands between the Lake of Mists and Ejen Horo
- Yaimmunahar - central Hordelands between the Lake of Mists and Quoya Desert
- the Plain of Horses- northeast Hordelands near Ama Basin
These are all mostly large grassland areas that are part of the greater "Hordelands", so perhaps just calling the entire region the Hordelands is the way to go.
Given how hazy the borders are for the Hordelands all ready, I would think that adding compass-point categories within the Hordelands would be even more confusing.
I would have to agree that it should be its own area. If you look at the map provided in the Hordelands box set, and all the places the "encyclopedia of the wastes" in the Hordelands books, its a massive area. http://i.imgur.com/0Lt3EIk.jpg
Its not just northeast Faerun, its east Faerun, and southeast Faerun as well. It borders it all. And then the booklet even says the Ni-Ko Oasis is generally considered the divide between Faerun and Kara-Tur, and tons of places like Ra-Khati and Khazari on very clearly on the Kar-Tur side of the divide.
You might as well slap "northwest Kara-Tur" on everything also given how much it borders the dragonwall.
while its true Darkwynters that it says that, the Kara-Tur campaign book lists the plain of horses, which is part of the hordelands, as being part of Kara-Tur. Similarly, its said in the Horde campaign book that the Ni-Ko oasis is whats considered the divide between faerun and Kara-Tur.
If we want to get really technical, everyfrom in the Hordelands from the Ni-Ko Oasis eastward should have their Faerun tags removed, and instead get Kara-Tur tags based on both what The Horde and Kara-Tur campaigns list as being the divide. Basically, this would be the dividing point http://i.imgur.com/mw86utq.jpg
Places like Ra-Khati, and Khazari, are not part of faerun, location wise, or culturally.
X = proposed removal
✓ = proposed addition
Country or Region |
Categories to which it belongs | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Northeast Faerûn |
East Faerûn |
Southeast Faerûn |
Far East Faerûn |
Hordelands | Kara-Tur | |
Narfell | ✓ | |||||
Rashemen | ✓ | |||||
Thesk | ✓ | |||||
Endless Waste | ✓ | ✓ | ||||
Yal Tengri | ✓ | ✓ | ✓ | ✓ | ||
Ama Basin | ✓ | ✓ | ||||
Horse Plains | ✓ | ✓ | ||||
Quoya Desert | ✓ | ✓ | ||||
Khazari | X | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Ra-Khati | X | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Thay | ✓ | |||||
Mulhorand | ✓ | |||||
Murghôm | ✓ | |||||
Semphar | ✓ | ✓ | ||||
Gbor Nor | ✓ | ✓ | ||||
Durpar | ✓ | |||||
Raurin | ✓ | |||||
Ulgarth | X | ✓ |
I like the Far East Faerûn idea! Follows all editions :)
@Moviesign
Parts of the western Ama Basin are considered to be in The Hordelands. and Ra-Khati and Khazari aren't really part of Faerun at all. Given the Ni-Ki Oasis continent split, both would be part of Kara-Tur. Both nations also follow the religion of the nations of Kara-Tur, which only furthers the idea.
Ulgarth would also, IMO, be part of Kara-Tur. If we look where the Faerun and LKara-Tur continents meet, its on the KLara-Tur side of the Golden Water, which just leads out to the ocean between Faerun and Zakhara
I disagree about Ulgarth... page 17 of the Player's Guide to Faerûn states it is under the Golden Water region, which could fit under Far East Faerûn... there is a nice map on page 7 of this 3.5 edition sourcebook... Page 79 on Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd edition has the Golden Water as being in southeast Faerûn... Do we need Far East", if we have an Utter East already?
The 4th edition sourcebook Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide page 87 has the Quoya Desert under the Hordelands... both of these are under locations in Faerûn... Now, technically, the desert could be under Far East or Utter East.
Check out the 3.5 edition Shining South page 109... it has a pretty good description of the Utter East :)
First, if it appears on maps of Faerûn, I'd put in Faerûn. And be aware that material for one setting will tend to briefly covering neighbouring lands.
Ulgarth: I did research on this once. It lies just beyond Durpar, but has a very Faerûnian culture. It was covered in both Shining South sourcebooks. So, it's certainly SE Faerûn. Being the birthplace of the Padhra, it's also very important to the Hordelands, though the setting book barely mentions it. I'm not inclined to put it in the Hordelands, but wouldn't say no either. It has nothing to do with Kara-Tur, so it's not a part of that.
Utter East: I researched this for the Utter East Redux project on the WotC forums years ago. An obscure place, it lies south of Ulgarth, on the west side of the spit of land connecting to Zakhara. (It's better described as utter south.) It has a local, Indian-like culture, but has strong connections to Faerûn (it was settled by folk from the Moonshaes as well). Although it's something of a nexus for all three continents, with elements of each appearing, it's only ever been mentioned in Faerûn-focused sources, so by extension I would call it SE Faerûn as well. It's definitely not in Zakhara, Kara-Tur, or the Hordelands.
Raurin: Covered in Faerûn and Horde material, it easily lies in both.
Durpar: Southeast Faerûn.
Murghôm, Semphar, & Gbor Nor: Tend to be mapped and covered in both, so East Faerûn and Hordelands.
Mulhorand, Plains of Purple Dust: East Faerûn
Thay: No question, East Faerûn.
I'll examine the others later.
Wait! Aha! The Forgotten Realms Atlas discusses what's in the Western Realms, the Hordelands, and the Eastern Realms, and it's in-universe and official too. It says the Hordelands are a wedge 2000 miles across in the north, a few hundred in the south. It's bordered by the intermittent mountain chains from Raurin to Sossal, the Jumpa River Gorge and the Dragonwall, and from Raurin to the Ama River basin.
In the Hordelands, it places Semphar (also a part of the Western Realms), Gbor Nor, possibly Raurin, the Godswatch Mountains/Teyla Shan, and the Shalhoond. It also places the "true" Hordelands, the Endless Wastes, and the Horse Plains (all names for the same place) there. It also includes the Chigidi and Chigiogi Mountains, the Kora Shan mountains, and the Quoya Desert.
Country or Region |
Categories to which it belongs | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Northeast Faerûn |
East Faerûn |
Southeast Faerûn |
Hordelands | Kara-Tur | |
Narfell | ✓ | ||||
Rashemen | ✓ | ||||
Thesk | ✓ | ||||
Endless Waste | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Yal Tengri | ✓ | ✓ | ✓ | ||
Ama Basin | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Horse Plains | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Quoya Desert | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Khazari | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Ra-Khati | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Thay | ✓ | ||||
Mulhorand | ✓ | ||||
Purple Dust | ✓ | ||||
Murghôm | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Semphar | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Gbor Nor | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Raurin | ✓ | ✓ | |||
Durpar | ✓ | ||||
Ulgarth | ✓ | ||||
Utter East | ✓ |