Forums: Helping Hand > Spelljammer Dates

Use the following template for a nicely presented post:

{{Forum post|Write your message here!|~~~~}}

I know that this came up on a talk page recently, but I cannot find which one. What do we think the date was for the major Spelljammer sourcebooks that mention Realms events? Maybe we can use this forum to research and look down a date. Then we can make a template like {{AQ-time}}.

Rock of Bral has a lot of history, with things such as "15 years ago", so it would be nice to get a fixed date.

Here's what I know:

~ Lhynard (talk) 07:38, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

~ Lhynard (talk) 16:53, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

This discussion came up originally in the Code Helm talk page. The article is set at 1359 DR, even though its source (Gold & Glory) doesn't fix the date that precisely.

There are a few more date-specific statements in Realmspace:

  • As Daranios mentioned, the Time of Troubles is mentioned as a past event in Realmspace (p.4), so it is probably set after 1358 DR.
  • Daranios also mentioned the chronology of Elminster's visits to Ed Greenwood, said to having been taking place for 15 years (p.52). However, the first article of The Wizards Three series would not be published until 1992, so after Realmspace. Maybe there is some information in the series (or elsewhere) that may help fix the date.
Sirwhiteout (talk) 17:53, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

In the first The Wizards Three article, Elminster visiting Ed seems to be long-established. Elminster is mentioned as the source of Greenwood's Realms-knowledge. If Greenwood created the Realms in 1975 (as this biographical article and the Ed Greenwood article say, so the source mentioned there to me seems to say 1978), than in February 1991, publication date of Realmspace, this would indeed have gone on 15 years. So if there is a correspondence between Earth and Realms years, then how about 1359 DR for Realmspace - The Horde, published in January 1991, is dated 1359 DR in the article - and 1360 DR for Rock of Bral (published August 1992) - the first The Wizards Three is published in September 1992 and revers to events from The Parched Sea, set in 1360 DR.

Daranios (talk) 21:19, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

This article at mentions several other time clues. The information probably needs to be properly vetted, though.
Ir'revrykal (talk) 21:33, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

Ah, that looks really interesting and well researched. It does not seem 100% trustworthy, though: I lookte at the one Al-Qadim info from 1176 DR (4858 OC) as an example: Content is from the source, but name and date give there are, I think, from a homebrew site (which I wish was Canon...).

Daranios (talk) 20:46, March 10, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, Ir'revrykal! That was an interesting read. I had no idea it existed. I think the article makes some wrong assumptions though, and has some errors, as Daranios noted.

In any case, I think I've nailed down the current year for Realmspace though, and it differs from the "A Spelljammer Timeline" article. The Emerald Brotherhood is key:

Therefore, Realmspace must be set in 1366 DR, plus or minus a year not in 1360 DR, as the "A Spelljammer Timeline" article states.

Unless anyone has any issues with that, I'm going to make a {{Realmspace date}} template.

Unfortunately, Realmspace does not mention the Rock of Bral, so I'm still having trouble dating that one.

I did discover this though:

  • The Spelljammer box set claims that Bral founded the Rock about 150 years ago (p. 94 of "Concordance of Archane Space").
  • Rock of Bral, p. 5 says that it was founded 170 years ago.

Neither date is exact, but it allows for a substantial time gap between the two books. So the set might be as early as 1357 DR with Rock of Bral being closer to 1367 DR.

Prince Andru's reign at the point of Rock of Bral has been 15 years, but he was also prince in the campaign set, so the gap between the two books has a maximum of 15 years.

~ Lhynard (talk) 20:51, March 10, 2018 (UTC)

An official date from Dragon Annual #1 puts the Second Unhuman War in Realmspace in 1360 DR, but I don't think that helps us much, as neither of the three sourcebooks we are discussing mention it, unless I just haven't seen it mentioned yet.
~ Lhynard (talk) 21:19, March 10, 2018 (UTC)

Realmspace itself actually mentions the year 1359 DR as the abduction year on p. 59; there is no need to even bring LoI into the mix.

However, there's a problem I cannot resolve.

While the first paragraph on p. 58 says, "seven years ago," the very next paragraph says, "After only 14 months of activity within Realmspace, slavers… have learned fear at the mere sight of Tyr's Strike." At first I thought, that just means that after their escape in 1359, they waited over five years to purchase their ship and become active in the Realmspace. But paragraph three then gives their history, making it clear that they were founded on Toril "four years ago to save the Thornwood" before their abduction in 1359.

How could they be founded 4 years ago yet abducted 7 years ago? Which number is wrong?

~ Lhynard (talk) 21:49, March 10, 2018 (UTC)

The entry about the Emerald Brotherood seems a bit unrealistic, but could be internally resolved:

The EB members were actually enslaved twice: Once by neogi, who brougt them into Realmspace seven years ago. Then they escaped, purchased the Tyr's Strike and were active for 14 months. Then over four years ago they offically formed the Emerald Brotherhood adventuring company to adventure in the Thornwood. In 1359 DR they were abducted from Toril by illithids, freed themselves and got onto Tyr's Strike again.

If we take this seriously, it narrows down but does not solve our dating problem completely: Current year has to be between 1359 DR and 1363 DR. As they made quite an impact in Erlkazar, probably closer to 1359 DR. Sorry if this throws a monkey wrench into the 1366 DR agumentation.

Daranios (talk) 21:22, March 11, 2018 (UTC)

Hah, a better interpretation occured to me: Some future members of the Emerald Brotherhood were brought into Realmspace as neogi slaves seven years ago. They escaped, came to Toril and over four years ago founded the EB together with some new friends from Faerûn. After some adventuring they were captured by illithids in 1359 DR. They managed to escape, purchased the Tyr's Strike and have been adventuring in space for 14 months.

This version of the story let's one wonder about the order the entry in the sourcebook is written in, but accounts for all facts and is more believable. (It also gives the non-Realms characters enough time to become devout followers of Tyr and Torm, and the freed Arcane to reiniate his mercantile acitivities enough to be able to provide a spelljammer.)

It narrows down the date of the sourcebook some more: It can no longer be 1359 DR, as at least 14 months have passed. 1360 DR seems good, with 1361 to 1363 still possible with decreasing likelyhood, as we do not know how long their second enslavement took.

Daranios (talk) 20:47, March 12, 2018 (UTC)

The more I read about the Emerald Brotherhood the more confused I get. It's not just the dating issue either. Gold & Glory says that it only has 4 members. The four are listed in Realmspace, but in the text, a fifth person, Thya, is mentioned. Who is Thya? Also, it claims that Dairn and Zadfraq are elves from the Forest of Tethir. Saying they entered Realmspace 7 years ago, makes it sound like they were not all from Realmspace, but at least two of them were.

I think you are correct that they were enslaved twice, as ridiculous as that sounds—first by neogi, then by illithids.

In other news, I now have a copy of Into the Void, which is set (mostly) in Realmspace and is officially dated to 1361 DR. It came out in the same year as Realmspace (1991) a few months later. Sadly, the novel has little that would help with dating though. If we go with 14 months after 1359 DR, it keeps us before the events of Into the Void, which matches the publication order.

~ Lhynard (talk) 05:04, March 20, 2018 (UTC)

Are there any objections to me setting the date of Realmspace to 1360 DR?
~ Lhynard (talk) 22:39, May 14, 2018 (UTC)

To add another wrench, I just noticed that The Grand History of the Realms dates Teldin Moore's visit to Evermeet to 1368 DR, which is completely in conflict with the novel The Radiant Dragon, which actually describes the event, and the official novel dates published by Wizards. According to the original sources, the visit would have occurred in 1362 DR
~ Lhynard (talk) 16:59, October 2, 2018 (UTC)
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.