Talk: Nature spirit

I'm not sure if Nendawen is a primal spirit or an archfey because in the Chosen of Nendawen trilogy "The Hunter" (with Nendawen as one incarnation) is described as a "primal" entity, but apparently he resides in the Feywild or at least has a strong connection to it. Furthermore, it is stated that he can only come to Toril on special occasions. My impression is that primal spirits and archfey aren't distinguished properly in the novels (or anywhere else). This leads to the question: Does "primal" actually mean "from the prime material plane" or does it simply mean "ancient"? Thoughts? --Neshen (talk) 20:10, July 3, 2015 (UTC)

I don't know anything about the Moonshaes, but Nobanion (in Powers & Pantheons) and Remnis and Quorlinn (in Monster Mythology and On Hallowed Ground) are considered proper deities from the Beastlands. So I think they may be tied to the world, but primal does not mean "from the prime material plane" here. (Except if the "primal" concept here is meant to supersede 2nd Edition information.) Daranios (talk) 06:40, July 4, 2015 (UTC)

Rename and Expansion

I propose to rename this article as "Nature spirit" and include "primal spirit" as redirect. It will include information about the various types of nature/primal spirits.

Opening sentence would start: "Nature spirits aka primal spirits..."

Subsections include:
===Nature Spirits (Kara-Tur)===
===Place Spirits===
===Nine Trickster Gods===
===Notable Nature Spirits===

Dragon magazine 376 Refers to nature spirits and primal spirits fairly interchangeably. The description of nature spirits and in part primal spirits very much align with the description of place spirits.

I also plan on renaming the existing Nature spirit article to Nature spirit (Kara-Tur), with approval from that article's author.

Please feel free to offer any input before I make this change. Ruf (talk) 12:08, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

The final draft (save for a proofread) for my new proposed iteration of this article can be found here. I'm happy to receive any input and will take some time before I change it over. Ruf (talk) 11:04, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for taking on this somewhat confusing topic. As additional input I'd like to point to the general overview of spirits I did. A link that article would be nice, but what's there in the sections Spirits of Kara-Tur and Nature Spirits could be relevant for your take on that, especially that Evermeet's green elves have their own view and list of nature spirits. Your footnote on Remnis seems to miss a word. Daranios (talk) 19:40, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Daranios! Check out the changes I made to my proposed nature spirit article and let me know your thoughts. I also want to propose a minor rephrasing to the Nature Spirits subsection of the spirit article:

“

The environment was populated with a near-infinite variety of creatures and forces with a close connection to nature, also often collectively called spirits. Among these were counted the races of the dryads and nymphs. Nature spirits, also known as primal spirits, were considered to be the most powerful and reclusive of spirits that shamans, druids, and barbarians could contact.

Next to the spirit of each physical part of nature, green elves revered a number of god-like wilderness spirits, most important among them Bear, Coyote, Eagle, Raven, Snake, and Wolf.

The Nine Trickster Gods of Omu were also considered primal spirits in the jungles of Chult.

”

Finally, I feel like a significant information about souls (specifics regarding warlock pacts, infernal war machines, soul coins) could be expanded greatly. Do you think this could be added to the spirit article, or created separately (with redirect removed)?

TY again for the feedback and additional source. Ruf (talk) 16:07, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Hello Ruf! Great, I like all your changes and proposals a lot. The only thing I am not sure about is the phrasing "Wild elves worshipped four known nature spirits ... along with numerous lesser animal spirits". Elves of Evermeet refers us back to Legends & Lore. Next to the implication that there are indeed numerous lesser animal spirits, that book has two named spirits beyond Elves of Evermeet, Coyote and Snake. They are not confirmed in a Forgotten Realms source by name, only by the reference here. Yet they are described as lesser deities, so would not qualify as "lesser animal spirits". Any objection to just including them in the list?

As for there still lacking lots of information about souls, I agree but don't have such information myself. Feel free to expand with what you find and think! I just want to refer you to check out the afterlife article, where Lhynard has already collected a lot of aspects coming at the topic from a different angle. No need to do the same work twice. Daranios (talk) 15:25, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I added the info about Coyote and Snake, thank you again for pointing them out. Additions to the soul article seem SO daunting. I am still conceptualizing exactly what I want to do with the article. Lhynard's afterlife article was one of my big inspirations. Honestly I should probably complete item enchantment with 4/5e info before I jump into another broad scope article. Ruf (talk) 12:11, 16 October 2022 (UTC)