Talk: Sigil

Campaign Setting Concern

Considering the reference to Planescape is there any disagreement to this article's, Mount Celestia's and Lady of Pain's relevance to the Realms? I for one am not 100% sure either way, but I don't think it is the same case as the realmspace discussion. Johnnyriot999 06:09, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Did I comment on this somewhere, or did I only mean to? Well, what I would have said was that as long as a proper Realms article refers to something, that something can have its own entry, as it's probably of some relevance.

Oh, and if you questioned Mount Celestia, that's hardly the only one of its kind. There are loads like it. Some of these new-fangled Outer Planes seem to be "Realms-specific", others don't but can still be as relevant. Others yet, I think, should be included by analogy and because they might become relevant. Ville V. Kokko 09:44, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't know too much about teh planes but that sounds about right. Thnaks for the clarification. Johnnyriot999 20:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not convinced this has anything to do with the Realms. Although we could very well consider the argument that all D&D worlds are connected via the planes, it would be beyond the scope of this wiki to start articles on Dragonlance or Greyhawk, for example. I think we need an example of some piece of Realmslore that specifically refers to Sigil in order to maintain this article. Fw190a8 19:31, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

And I quote, from Richard Baker:

Richard Baker posted on 1/5/04 at 4:34 PM: “No, I think it's a valid reference. I see no reason why Sigil's existence is at odds with the FR cosmology. It's the city that is nowhere and everywhere--more a reflection of Sigil's nature than Faerûn's, I think.

(Specifically, in the FR cosmology, Sigil sits off in the same sort of cosmic corner as Cynosure. It's a unique plane.)”

Richard Baker posted on 1/23/04 at 12:31 PM: “My answer: Yes, it is the same Sigil.

It might seem bizarre that Sigil, a feature of the Great Wheel cosmology, has anything to do with the FR cosmology. But, as I said before, I think this contradiction is a reflection of Sigil's nature, not FR's nature. Sigil is the place from which you can get to anywhere else.”

Furthermore, Rich has said that the Infinite Staircase that is mentioned in the Player’s Guide can also be used to move between the different cosmologies. So this leaves three ways that we know of to cross between them. Sigil, the Staircase, and the Shadow Plane.

Richard Baker posted on 5/20/04 at 12:30 PM: “My belief is yes. Certainly it's our intent that there's some ability to connect Toril to other cosmologies through places like Sigil or phenomena like the Infinite Staircase.”

Sigil is mentioned in canon in Faiths & Pantheons, regarding a portal that leads to Sigil. Other prior (2E) mentions of Sigil in the Realms are also canonical, until otherwise specifically corrected. Therefore Sigil is a canonical part of the Realms, though it remains outside the Realms' specific cosmology. -Sarelle 13:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Sarelle, excellent clarification, thanks. Can you provide a link to these posts from Rich? Fw190a8 18:43, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

They're from the old 'Ask Richard Baker thread' on the Forgotten Realms Wizards forums, but I lifted that directly from the archive of my old mate Kuje's thread, here, a very good resource.-Sarelle 11:59, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I was just made aware of this entry via another Sigil-related thread. I'd like to request that the Sigil entry be rewritten to explain its relationship to the Forgotten Realms cosmology, if we're going to have it at all. Gabeth 19:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

So what, if any, is the true answere here? Should entries for Sigil, and any important NPCs, specific spells, etc., be here, or in an entirely new wiki? Also, I have slight problems with the way some pages are considered "canon" or not. Who makes this determination? Is this person the "last word?" I ask only because several of my edits have been changed, and really, who has the right to do so? Who makes the final call here? Dark Ronin 21:20, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for the long reply on this. DarastrixUxBahumati's comment on this page reminded me of its existence. I say we keep it, then, because there are enough references to it existing in the Realms to convince me that it should have an article here. Fw190a8 01:00, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

One source for reference material could be the Masquerades novel. A wizard in that book travels to Sigil often enough and uses planar cant. Also, Tymora's Luck and Finder's Bane both deal with Finder Wyvernspur and his first cleric's adventures in both the realms and the planes (noteably Sigil). The adventure For Duty and Diety take characters from the Realms to the planes and to Sigil.--DarastrixUxBahumati 16:47, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Sigil is its own plane

"Specifically, in the FR cosmology, Sigil sits off in the same sort of cosmic corner as Cynosure. It's a unique plane" The article states that Sigil is IN Cynosure, which is apparently in reference to the above comment. Re-read the comment. Sigil is not in Cynosure but in a plane similar to Cynosure. A small planar pocket, as it were. Sigil can access the Prime Material Plane and mortals are able to enter the city and travel to the other planes. In fact, Sigil is FULL of mortals who keep coming and going. The Cynosure would prevent this, if I understand the Cynsorue correctly.--DarastrixUxBahumati 17:34, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Can the pronunciation of this article please be changed? The article currently lists it as /ˈsɪgɪl/ with a hard G as in "Good", while a cursory Google search of standard English dictionary entries clearly results in a standard pronunciation of /ˈsɪdʒɪl/, as in the word meaning " an inscribed or painted symbol considered to have magical power ".

The referenced source provides no evidence that the word should be pronounced differently from standard English. It simply leads to a map of the multiverse and the inner and outer planes that does not even list Sigil.

89.220.177.141 00:42, April 8, 2020 (UTC)

The city's name is indeed pronounced with a hard /g/, unlike the word "sigil" in English. This is explicitly stated on page 4 of the Planescape Campaign Setting book Sigil and Beyond, which states that it is incorrect to pronounce the city's name like "sijil". ― Sirwhiteout (talk) 01:47, April 8, 2020 (UTC)

Sirwhiteout (and our wiki) is correct on this. The name of the city is pronounced differently from the English word. This is exactly the reason we have pronunciation guides on the wiki. This is a wiki about fantasy places, after all, not English terms.

I double checked the source, and the pronunciation is right there, as SWO said. Are you sure that you have a correct copy of the book?

~ Lhynard (talk) 01:53, April 8, 2020 (UTC)

I honestly hate that the fictional location is pronounced in a way that makes MORE sense than the word, Like the word for symbol should be spelled Sijil honestly, scince that is exactly what you actually say.