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Grammar check Edit

Hi. I need to ask you a favor. Can you check the new info I added to the Bahamut articles? I did from my cellphone. Add that to my terrible English, and I'm sure there is something to be fixed there. Thanks in advance.--Zero X (talk) 14:45, November 22, 2019 (UTC)

Oops, I missed this. I'll try to check next time I get a chance. — BadCatMan (talk) 06:36, January 16, 2020 (UTC)


Hi, sorry that I couldn't get back to you earlier, I do not check my profile that much so I didn't realize that you sent a message until today. Thanks you for informing me about the plagiarism rules, I don't know why i did that, that's just how i had it in my quick notes so i guess I got confused. I will keep that in mind for the future, thanks.AlexMcClay (talk) 18:56, January 15, 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for responding and understanding this. I've already removed the copied text from Shield of Iriaebor and fixed it up in other ways, so please feel free to expand on it with your own words and the canon lore. — BadCatMan (talk) 06:36, January 16, 2020 (UTC)

Alu-fiends, Cambions and Succubi Edit

Hey again. Here's something I had noticed.

There's this whole 'thing' where alu fiends and cambions have changed definitions throughout the editions to the point where it's very confusing. And a similar thing had happened with succubi. So long-story short, here's my solution. How about we just leave Cambion and Alu-Fiend in their own half-fiend category (like they were before) but remove the devil conncection, seeing as how you could also put demon in there. And then succubi can go into the general fiend category. I just think it'd simplify things since there are already notes in the succbus and alu-fiend page about how what *precise* fiends they descend from have changed across the editions.Vegepygmy (talk) 04:51, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

I know, I covered it a bit when I developed the succubus article. It is confusing, but from the point of view of the FRW's edition-neutral policy (the convergence of the Past-tense and Canon policies), each version and its lore is equally valid. For the succubus, once a demon, always a demon, as well as a devil, and a fiend. From another viewpoint, a 1e/2e/3e fan looking in the demons category should find the succubus, while a 4e fan looking at devils and a 5e fan looking at general fiends should also expect to find succubi. Similarly, the 2e cambion is as valid as the 5e cambion. So, I think we should leave them with all their categories and navigation boxes for earlier editions. It's better to have more organization and information than less.

Hm. Alright well in that case if I can't narrow them down to *one* fiend type I'll just put them in all the fiend types. As in I will add devil, demon and fiend connection to each of them. Does that sound reasonable?Vegepygmy (talk) 05:41, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that's fine. Anything that was once valid can go in, demon, devil, and fiend as appropriate. You can place the latest 5e information first or give it primacy if it helps reduce confusion. My own approach is to discuss changing lore chronologically. — BadCatMan (talk) 05:48, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

Monster Manual 3rd edition Edit

So I might be about to sound stupid, but I can't figure out how to cite the 3rd edition of the monster manual. Not 3.5 just 3rd. It had info on the barghest that the 3.5 version left out. Pls and thank you.Vegepygmy (talk) 15:52, January 26, 2020 (UTC)

Just going to jump in here. Can't you just use: Cite book/Monster Manual 3rd edition instead of Cite book/Monster Manual 3.5? ~ Possessed Priest (talk) 20:01, January 26, 2020 (UTC)

Weird. I remember trying that and it didn't work. Maybe I mistyped something and didn't realize. Thanks.Vegepygmy (talk) 20:13, January 26, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, sometimes it's hard to get the right one to auto-suggest when they're all so similarly titled. If you can't get the right one to come up, look through Category:Sourcebook_citation_templates and copy-paste the template name directly. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:15, January 27, 2020 (UTC)

Vaasan Edit


I was disapointed to notice that all the information that I uploaded onto the Vaasans page had been removed. I gathered everything from Races of Faerun (an official source for dnd lore). So I am unsure why it was removed, I am happy to link you the book so you can see that all the information I uploaded was from the book. Can you please explain how that is not lore? The current page is very incomplete and gives no indication of the Vaasan people. – User:Kalasznikov98

I know all the information is from the book – you copied it, word for word. That is copyright infringement. We do not accept copied text at the FRW; please see our Plagiarism policy. If you'd checked the edit history and summaries for the page, you'd've seen my note mentioning that. If you wish to add the lore about Vaasans, please rewrite it in your own words, in past tense, and arranged to suit a wiki article. — BadCatMan (talk) 16:15, February 10, 2020 (UTC)

Extra Spaces Edit

I've noticed you have removed those extra spaces either between the DEFAULTSORT and Infobox, or between the Infobox and text body on a few of my pages. When I create these new pages those spaces aren't showing up and seem to appear later. Any idea why that is happening? Artemaz (talk) 01:39, February 25, 2020 (UTC)

I haven't a clue, I thought everyone saw the extra spaces and they were just made in error. They're very noticeable on the finished article pages. How are you writing your articles? — BadCatMan (talk) 01:43, February 25, 2020 (UTC)
I write the articles 100% within the source editor. It's just weird because those extra spaces don't get added every time. Seems random.Artemaz (talk) 02:42, February 25, 2020 (UTC)

Succubi and Iggwilv Mark II Edit

So succubi are one of the few fiends that I don't know much about and if memory serves you wrote most of their article. Recently I read in a dragon article that succubi were the first tanar'ri *type* to appear in the Abyss, since they truly took on the mortal form rather than screwing with it. I can't remember where I read this part, but I also remember reading that the succubi abandoned the Abyss in droves at one point which helped Asmodeus become a god. Shouldn't that be in the succubus article?Vegepygmy

Perhaps. When I developed the succubus article, I didn't delve into the deep lore of the demons, but only focused on the succubus write-ups in each edition. They were complicated enough to handle and resolve discrepancies for. I only started it to get the page correctly cited and resolve an edit war about some kind of homebrew or stats from another game entirely. I'm sure there's more about their relations and history and fiendish politics to include, but that was a project too far for me, I don't know which sources to even look in.
The article does touch on their 4th-edition migration to the Nine Hells and Asmodeus's ascension, but it could be given more detail. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:50, March 5, 2020 (UTC)


Hey BadCatMan, sorry to troublr you but just wondering why my edit was removed as I believe it had relevant information from a Wizard of the Coasts adventure?Bingers (talk) 12:41, March 5, 2020 (UTC)

What exactly was your edit? Your "Bingers" account has only this message recorded, so you must've been logged-out or not had an account before. — BadCatMan (talk) 13:48, March 5, 2020 (UTC)

Summon ShadowEdit

Yes it was needed, the spell was missing the duration, with just vague wording the second edit was fixing bad grammer

The FRW does not give the crunch of spells and other effects. Please see our No Crunch policy. The phrasing conveyed the necessary information without the rules. The component statement was grammatically correct. — BadCatMan (talk) 09:47, March 19, 2020 (UTC)

Its vague information and very poor grammer, but you dont care because your in charge. I understand needing to paraphrase to stay under Hasbros radar. But the way its written is less that a 5th grader could do; it doesnt even mention that the spell was done away with in the newer editions .. 

further information. the citing of footnote 9, is fraudulent. nothing on that page can be found in that TSR publication, I just went trough the entire suppliment.

The reference was in error, so I have fixed it. There is no need to mention newer editions at all, since doing so would be irrelevant to our in-universe focus. --Ir'revrykal (talk) 10:58, March 19, 2020 (UTC)
The original version was grammatically correct, just not a natural phrasing; thank you for improve description of the component, at least. However, it was still rather better than what you've written, with your incorrect spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Finally, I do care because I get paid to edit for a living. Have a nice self-isolated day. — BadCatMan (talk) 11:21, March 19, 2020 (UTC)

Ok, there was no spelling error.  Really? You have a problem with cubic? And 3 meters cube is not the same, as most geeks are smart enough to realize this, there really isn’t a reason to make this mathematically correct except that being in physics for most of my years on this planet; tis a pet peeve... and the grammar was incorrect Feet instead of foot, I don’t believe I added any punctuation. Its still missing the useful information on actual duration of the spell.  I don’t understand your lack of wanting new sources for the information presented, but its not my site. You must be using down under English, for I am lost at your "un natural" phrasing. I am friends with many of the original writers/inventors of this game. I’m sure even though some are no longer with us, they would prefer that the most accurate information be given out. In my personal correspondence I don’t worry about proper grammar as I’m just talk typing (finger issues) I shall not bother to fix any further articles

one last note, as i just finished reading Netheril: Empire of Magic by slade with Jim Butler 1996. Nowhere does this publication list the information given as "history".  Further as the spell was published in 1989 in the players guide as this article cites under number 2 and is not altered by this later document, the below is fraudulent information as well (Fan fiction at best) It does list the name difference, but not when or by who; possibly i missed it as i do read extremly fast when challenged.

The spell was invented in −594 DR by the Netherese arcanistShadow,[1] with the original name being Shadow's summons.[9]

Yes, as you said, you missed it. The date of the spell's invention is given in the cited source on page 28, and you can read the inventor's biography on the wiki if you're interested. I have added the duration of the spell to the article in non-crunchy terms (note that rounds in 2nd edition were 1 minute long, not 10 seconds) and corrected the dimensions of the summoning area. Thank you for your contribution toward getting the article thoroughly correct. We welcome good-faith efforts at accuracy as long as they comply with our policies and do not infringe on copyrights. —Moviesign (talk) 17:18, March 19, 2020 (UTC)
"Really? You have a problem with cubic? And 3 meters cube is not the same, as most geeks are smart enough to realize this, there really isn’t a reason to make this mathematically correct except that being in physics for most of my years on this planet; tis a pet peeve..."
This was a rather insulting response. Many of us here are not only smart; we have PhDs.
In any case, your own understanding about the use of the word "cube" in this case is very flawed. If I say "10-foot cube," it does not mean "10 cubic feet." These are entirely different things, and both are correct terms. The former is an actual cube shape with a length of 10 feet. The latter is a volume, not necessarily a cube. A 10-foot cube has a volume of 1,000 cubic feet. Your changes were altogether incorrect. And no, this is not some obscure thing. No, this has nothing to do with BadCatMan being from Australia. Moreover, the sourcebooks themselves use this sort of terminology constantly.
~ Lhynard (talk) 18:03, March 19, 2020 (UTC)


Hey I saw that you changed the article "On the Nature of Shadow" and in the summery you said 'rephrase away from source' im 100% sure I didn't write using any source material, I changed all of it. The only similarity that i could find was in pg 180, and it said 'or in the common tongue'. Surely the wiki isn't that strict, it was just 5 words.

And i have a question for you, I'm trying to organize my personal notes, and I was wondering what program you use for writing your documents about Realmslore, novel info and that sort of stuff, because for now I'm using word, but I can't add references in the style that the FR wiki is in. AlexMcClay (talk) 12:21, March 22, 2020 (UTC)

That was the line I noted. And it's more than five words: The book says "It was K'sai'eb'mal, or in the common tongue, On the Nature of Shadows. You wrote "The book's title in Talfir was K’sai’eb’mal, or in the common tongue, On the Nature of Shadows. Altogether, all but the first five words were copied. While some descriptions and turns of phrase are unavoidable and can be reused in an article, or even quoted, in this case, it is possible and just better to rephrase to suit a standard wiki-style lead: state what it's called, what it is, and so on. Similarly, in Jewel Talondim, you copied "riding leathers dyed the same dusky violet color as her eyes" direct from the novel. No matter how small, it's still copying. After the problems before, I'd much prefer you rephrase entirely, not leave in the odd copied statement just for the sake of it.
I do work in Word documents, but I copy-paste in the templates, ref codes, and so on, and even whole articles to add to. I keep them in my documents, use and reuse them and write over them. Some I'm familiar enough with I can write them outright. For a reference, all you need is
<ref name="RefName">{{Cite book/TITLE|PAGE|CHAPTER}}</ref>
and just fill in the blanks. Most of the time, if you put in the right title, it'll work, or else you can just correct it when you go to make the page. — BadCatMan (talk) 14:43, March 22, 2020 (UTC)

Epic ReturnsEdit

Hey BadCat, long time no see. School has been totally busy, but now that I have an extended break, DW has returned :)

If you get a sec, please check out the Epic magic page, I think an Anon deleted a bunch of material!!! Darkwynters (talk) 16:50, March 28, 2020 (UTC)

Welcome back! It's good to see you active here again. :)
Uh, since you already restored the text and blocked the vandal, you didn't have to tell me about it. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:28, March 29, 2020 (UTC)

Titles vs Aliases Edit

So I don't know how to do this but if I could make a suggestion. Could you add the alias bar to the template for deities? Because I tried using it and it didn't work and titles aren't always the same as other names.Vegepygmy (talk) 00:42, March 29, 2020 (UTC)

It's already there, you should be able to use the aspects entry. That will put the other names under "Aspects/Aliases". For example, see Ilmater and Selûne. — BadCatMan (talk) 01:33, March 29, 2020 (UTC)
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