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Talk Archives: 2014 ~ 2015 ~ 2016 ~ 2017 ~ 2018

The Hierarchies of Mount CelestiaEdit

Hello Lhynard! I have seen that you have used a citation Template:Cite book/Planes of Law/The Hierarchies of Mount Celestia a few times. Might this actually be Template:Cite book/Planes of Law/Mount Celestia? Thanks for letting me know! Daranios (talk) 20:45, January 15, 2019 (UTC)

No, it's actually a poster found in the boxed set that includes information not found in the Mount Celestia book itself. It's a giant chart. ~ Lhynard (talk) 21:17, January 15, 2019 (UTC)
Ah, cool, I did not remember that one. Just today someone has created a citation template for the poster, thinking from the map side: Template:Cite book/Planes of Law/Map-Mount Celestia Would it make sense to use that one? Daranios (talk) 18:35, January 16, 2019 (UTC)
It is a separate poster from the map, if that is what you are asking. ~ Lhynard (talk) 18:42, January 18, 2019 (UTC)
Aehm, in my print the Hierarchies are on the back side of the Mount Celestia map, so I am wondering if it is enough to use the map template, oder if we need to separate ones for the two sides. Daranios (talk) 18:57, January 18, 2019 (UTC)
Ah, I see. I didn't remember them being on the same sheet. I still think that they should be separate, because posters don't actually have page numbers. ~ Lhynard (talk) 19:43, January 18, 2019 (UTC)
And done: I have created the citation template (and removed the "(boxed set)" within, according to this discussion). Daranios (talk) 15:49, January 19, 2019 (UTC)

Nose horns in the Forgotten Realms Edit

I'm curious as to what parts of the Forgotten Realms have nose horns living in the wild. Zoos don't count.

Gringo300 (talk) 18:32, April 3, 2019 (UTC)


Thanks for adding that source! (I don't have access to Dragon Magazine Annual 1999.) Just trying to understand completely: I figured Semitic was a group of languages. Does "Speaking in Tongues" indeed say, that Midani is based on Semitic, or would the equivalent rather be the Midani language group? Thanks again for letting me know! Daranios (talk) 19:59, April 15, 2019 (UTC)

Translation RequestEdit


My name is Fernandez Cyril. There some years I play at DD (Ghelspad), and i very impress by your collective work about the Forgotten Realms !

I contact you and all has wish for a personnal project. With my familly, we would like create a time capsule, and we would like input a little text in various real and fictive languages. 

Could you help us for translate the text in some Forgotten language please?    If you want to help me, the text in english is : "Hello, my name is Bakou Hearthless!! Nice to meet you ! I am exploring space with my weather balloon. If you want to send me back home, could you contact Mr.FERNANDEZ Cyril by e-mail at or by phone on +336 22 69 46 44 / +333 80 47 55 38 or by mail at this address 4 rue de la tournelle 21560 Couternon France. Thank you for your help! "   For unexistant word you can creat neologism, I know the DD languages are not very large vocabulare !

Thank you for your help 09:58, May 5, 2019 (UTC) M.Fernandez

Hello, Fernandez,
Time capsules are something that I have always found fascinating; it sounds like fun.
Your request, however, is not something that is really possible. All of the so-called "langauges" in the Realms are simply pretend. A few of them, such as Alzhedo, Dwarvish, Elvish, Draconic, and Drow, have a relatively large list of vocabulary words, but the fact that multiple authors have contributed words means that there is little agreement or pattern among them. Also, most of the word lists are very focused on DnD-type things, and, even with neologisms, it would be hard to come up with enough words to do any word-for-word "translation", which, as I'll note below, is not really a translation at all. The big problem is actually all of the missing "tiny" grammatical words, like linking verbs and pronoun forms, which simply don't exist in any of the Realm's sourcebooks. In your little message, "Hello, my name is Bakou Hearthless," might be able to be translated, but that's about it.
The problem is that there is no actual syntax or grammar for these "languages" at all. Replacing a word with a word from another language doesn't work. Real languages have rules about word order and word endings, and we are not given any such information for any Realm's language.
There are a few cases, however, where a Realm's language is actually a real life language. Midani words almost all are real Arabic words,Shou words are almost all Chinese words, and Giant words are all from Scandinavian languages. What I do when I DM is simply use these real-life languages to "translate" things. For example, if I want my PCs to find a Giant inscription, I plug it into Google translate for Norwegian and tweak it a bit. I use Icelandic instead if I am dealing with the frost giant dialect.
But, if this is for a time capsule, the discovers would just think it Icelandic, not Frost Giant.
Here's another idea for you: Some settings do indeed have "real" languages, meaning functional, true languages. These are called constructed languages. Tolkien created several "conlangs". I know that the Klingon language of Star Trek is another functional language. I, however, do not know any of these languages, but I am sure that there are online communities that could help you translate your passage into Klingon or Quenya. Game of Thrones supposedly uses a functional language or two on its show also. Those are only three possibilities. "Conlanging" is a hobby for many—I have worked on a few myself—and Wikipedia has a huge list of made-up languages here: Wikipedia:List of constructed languages#Artistic/fictional languages.
Also, I am curious why you wish for a Forgotten Realms language. Ghelspad is a very different setting. Does it have any communities who might be able to help you make a message that fits within that setting?
I hope that these give you some ideas. Thanks for your message, and I wish you the best. I am sorry that I cannot be of any more direct help.
~ Lhynard (talk) 18:06, May 7, 2019 (UTC)
I'm interesting not only by Forgotten Realms language, I try to find Ghelspad language too. But without minus success !

Forgotten Realms are differente to Ghelspad but we had play with Forgotten Realms univers too, we have use a lot of univers :D. We had a people from Eberon, my characters come from to Forgotten Realms (the dragon forest), an other to Krynn, Ghelspad was only "the main Univers".

We have a Klingon traduction! For Tolken's langages my request was not obtain a really good welcoming :D. 
If you are interesting, we are interesting by a traduction on your own colanguage :D .
M.Fernandez82.67.64.135 05:47, May 22, 2019 (UTC)

Citation and Canono Conflict HelpEdit

Sorry to bother you but I seem to require a bit of help. I've been going over certain monster pages, updating them and trying to use the sources provided to improve them. I have reached two roadblocks that the citation pages haven't adequately explained to me.

1. Vegepygmy. I need to add a source to the list at the bottom, but I can't seem to figure out how. 

2. Meazel. I don't quite grasp the contradiction rules in this case. In previous editions they were clawed swamp monsters whose skin was diseased (hence the name). But Mordekain's version are shadowfell hermits who use gurrot wires and becaon shadow monsters to their victims. I don't see either as overwriting the other but I don't know how I would mend these two different concepts.

Thanks for your help. 03:07, June 17, 2019 (UTC)

Hi! I've left some answers your at your own Talk page, User talk: — BadCatMan (talk) 07:03, June 17, 2019 (UTC)
There's no need to apologize about asking a question here. Welcome.
BadCatMan did a great job answering for me, so I don't have much more to add here. Regarding Meazel in particular, the 3e source is specifically about meazel in the Realms. Since this is a Realms wiki, that material takes precedence if there are any true conflicts, even though the 5e sourcebook is newer.
~ Lhynard (talk) 15:58, June 17, 2019 (UTC)

Oryndoll OdditiesEdit

Yes. It actually is a building, or at least a carved out cave. Actual lore based place. Oryndoll has alot of horrors like that.Gem Hound (talk) 23:08, June 22, 2019 (UTC)

On top of this, can you please revert moving the Thrall Caverns (Oryndoll) page to Thrall Caverns and the Ring Caverns (Oryndoll) page to Ring Caverns? Both locations names are exceedingly generic, and having these pages be pages with unspecified locations will screw up work that I am going to do once I am finished with Oryndoll. Ring Caverns and Thrall Caverns are both future pages once I have Oryndoll and Ch'Chitl completed. Gem Hound (talk) 18:18, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

Going to add this as well. When I am working on Ch'Chitl, Ch'Chitl's Inner Ring will also be titled Inner Ring (Ch'Chitl), as it is different from the Inner Rings of most mind flayer colonies. Gem Hound (talk) 18:25, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

As I noted on your talk page, there is a difference between "inner rings" and "Inner Ring". Looking in the sourcebook, I only see Ch'Chitl having an "Inner Ring". Wiki titles, except for the first letter, are case-sensitive. So you can have inner ring and Inner Ring articles without the need for disambiguation parentheticals. ~ Lhynard (talk) 18:31, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll take that into consideration for the future. I have alot more work to do. Gem Hound (talk) 18:33, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
Ring Caverns (Oryndoll) is now fixed. ~ Lhynard (talk) 18:40, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
Thankyou. Now onward to the Cenotaph of Maanzecorian.Gem Hound (talk) 18:53, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
I just thought of something. Can you add categories for temples to Maanzecorian and Ilsensine incase I find more of them during my project? Thanks. Gem Hound (talk) 21:57, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
Sure, I just added the one for Maanzecorian, but you can do this yourself too. There are a bunch of ways. Easiest is to scroll to the bottom of any page where the categories are listed and click "Add category". Type on in, hit Enter, and click "Save". That adds the category to the page.
Alternatively, you can edit the page—not with the Visual Editor, which is the spawn of Bhaal anyhow—and then you have two methods. You can type at the very bottom of all the markup code [[Category:Temples to Foo]] or you can open the right sidebar of the edit page and the Categories section and add a category by typing in a new one and hitting Enter there.
After adding the category by any of these three methods, you can also make the category page itself. Simply click on the category link. You should see the page already there in the list. It should say at the top, "Start this page!" Click that and you can edit it just like any other page.
Many category pages simply look like this:
The first line tells how to sort the page when it is itself placed within another category in the hierarchy of categories.
The second line is a shortcut for linking to the appropriate article.
The third line is the "parent" category.
I hope that that all makes sense. I'll let you make the one for Ilsensine. Have fun, but be careful with your new powers.
~ Lhynard (talk) 22:27, June 23, 2019 (UTC)


I would like to add the searechter to the beholderkin tab. How do you do so?

You need to edit the template page: Template:Beholders.
(If you are curious, they are called "navboxes" or "navigation boxes" in wiki lingo.)
~ Lhynard (talk) 18:22, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

It seems you put a tag on the Searechter as irrelevent. I can't seem to find any place they were mentioned besides the magazine. Should I remove it?

If you mean, "Should I remove the tag?" no. The {{Unrelated}} tag is for articles that have no clear connection to the Forgotten Realms. If you mean, "Should the page be deleted?" that is up to you. We strongly discourage adding such articles, but they are not forbidden. In the future though, please do not add pages that are not about the Forgotten Realms in some way. This is a Forgotten Realms wiki about the lore of the Forgotten Realms. It is not a catalog of every monster ever appearing somewhere in a Dungeons and Dragons source. ~ Lhynard (talk) 19:39, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
P.S.: Try to remember to sign your name on talk pages using ~~~~.
Alright. Feel a bit like I wasted time but that's more my fault. I saved the code, so if they ever come back I can restart the page but for now you can delete it. I assume that I can't because I can't find any page delete function.
Vegepygmy (talk) 19:45, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I know exactly how you feel. I once made a gigantic page about some abyssal monster because I found it in a big list, only to realize that it had nothing to do with the Realms. I decided to have it deleted also.
Yes, regular users cannot delete pages directly, but you can mark them for deletion with the {{Deletion}} tag.
~ Lhynard (talk) 19:53, June 23, 2019 (UTC)
Also, if you ever discover a connection to the Realms after all, the information is still there, and the page can be undeleted. ~ Lhynard (talk) 19:56, June 23, 2019 (UTC)

Sch'thrruppasstt Edit

So I told Gem Hound this already but since your working on Yuan-ti I'll give this to you as well. There's apparently another god of the Yuanti called Sch'thrruppasstt.

He's a Lesser God of the Abyss and it says that he orchestrated their creation but it's not really specifc on how. He wanted to become more powerful so he merged with his dimension making him effectively unkillable but also driving him crazy since it was in the abyss. His home is called the 'Mind of Evil' because it's literally his mind and he has absolute control their along with magical nullification. Also apparently the Yuan-ti seek to bring him back to normal using a lot of magic from the material world. So yeah, not sure how to mend that aside from making him more of a co-conspirator. 

Vegepygmy (talk) 03:46, July 3, 2019 (UTC))

Thanks for the tip. ~ Lhynard (talk) 01:40, July 9, 2019 (UTC)

Armies of the AbyssEdit

Hello again.

I can't find out of the armies of the abyss book is canon for forgotten realms.

Vegepygmy (talk) 23:05, July 8, 2019 (UTC)

No, it is not an official publication from either TSR, Inc. or Wizards of the Coast, so it is not canon. It was published as part of the Open Game Content license. ~ Lhynard (talk) 01:40, July 9, 2019 (UTC)

Good Article Edit

I was about to add some stuff about Yeenoghu's realm from an old monster manual and noticed that there's like 12 new 'Good Articles' now. What's happened after I left for the day?

Nothing special; I just went through the list of nominations and awarded a bunch, because I have not done so in a while.
We maintain two levels of article quality here, Good articles and Featured articles. Each has its own procedure for nomination and approval. The former is a simpler process. If you want to nominate an article for GA status, simply add the Category:Good article nominees category. One of the admins—95% of the time, me—every once in a while goes through and checks if they follow the guidelines listed here. If so, it gets award GA status.
Featured articles are nominated here. Then, people vote and give critical feedback. If a sum of at least three people give the article a +1 vote that the article follows these guidelines, then an admin makes it into an FA, and it is displayed on the home page in a weekly cycle.
~ Lhynard (talk) 23:52, July 9, 2019 (UTC)

Canon Edit

So I've asked this before but this is more specific. Is the stuff by paizo publishing related to dragon magazine considered canon? Not to ask too much but I want to make double extra sure I don't read something for no reason whatever.

Vegepygmy (talk) 17:18, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

Paizo Publishing published the magazines for a while, but they are still official D&D content and canon, if they do not conflict with other Realms material. ~ Lhynard (talk) 19:10, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Vegepygmy (talk) 19:26, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

Template:RaceInline Edit

Hi Lhynard, thanks for posting your reply to the discussion, I have compiled this table to start with: Template:RaceInline/races. The only categories I have changed are those with differing version of the plural on the page.

Subraces are races ... we want either a single race category or every possible race categorization up the chain.
I get this, I can do either, what do you think is better?
Capitilization is important... & ...categories should be plurilized...
I get this, this is why I complied that table, if its matches the second column, regardless of case, it will link to the third column and display the input and categorise the first column.
Everything needs to be unlinked properly.
Thats what I am using {{delink}} for.
References need to be handled properly.
As I mentioned in the discussion this can be handled in a couple of ways, either I could use AutoWikiBrowser to semi-auto move references to basicref field, or I can try fix delink to handle the refs. I prefer the first method as that is what the basicref is there for.
We do not yet have a firm policy on half-races—though we should...
How are they categorised currently? I can use this until a verdict is made.

I have a couple of questions/thoughts:

  1. I have the creature type in the table, do you think displaying this would be useful?
  2. Would you want a category for unmatched races, to either fix the table or add a category, could be useful for maintenance
  3. I was thinking of doing Gender first as a less complex version of the above, using Category:Inhabitants_by_gender, would changing the category from sexless to genderless as a more accurate term be okay? My fist draft version is Template:GenderInline what do you think?

Thanks Abedecain32px - Talk and maybe you'll get cake! 12:27, August 13, 2019 (UTC)

Person Talk Edit

Hey, I have started a thread in Person Talk on my implementations about Person/sandbox, would love for your feedback/thoughts. They are fairly simple modifications, but I think good ones. - Abedecain32px - Talk and maybe you'll get cake! 13:04, August 22, 2019 (UTC)

I responded there; thanks. ~ Lhynard (talk) 13:38, August 22, 2019 (UTC)

Fey Day Edit

Hi Lhynard,

Got your feedback about Fey Day. I'll definitely rewrite it, didnt realize that was a prohibition considering we're literally citing the reference down to the page.

That said, when you come across someone who's clearly trying to learn your system here, is it not possible to save the work they've done, either by deprecating the article to a draft or by copy & pasting the source into a message to them so they dont have to go back and redo ALL of the work? It seems like you have the best interest of the community in mind but it sure does feel crummy to see "Hey you know those couple of hours you spent looking up the really convoluted conventions this site uses in order to design that site... yeah well its all in the trash now, try again."

TigonDJ (talk) 08:11, August 24, 2019 (UTC)

If I may jump in, there is a record of all non-plagiarism contribution in each page's edit history. This link for example, will show the work that you put in for the Ches 19 page. It could then be used to add to a Fey day article.Ruf (talk) 14:40, August 24, 2019 (UTC)
Yes, Ruf is correct. Any legal edits are maintained in a history so that no work is lost.
Plagiarism is different, however. This has nothing to do with our wiki; it's the case for any wiki or any journal article regarding published text. Copied text is illegal and must be removed from the history as well, since the history is still accessible by search engines. So, while I recognize that it seems harsh, we have to follow the copyright laws or risk a lawsuit from Wizards of the Coast.
Also, I should say that I appreciate your comment here. It was presented in a very cordial way, when others might have responded angrily. Thank you for that. I totally understand where you are coming from, and when copied text is not involved, we generally try to work with what a new user added and go from there. No one wants to see hard work vanish.
~ Lhynard (talk) 00:47, August 25, 2019 (UTC)

Hi again Lhynard,

I got some really good feedback and pointers from Moviesign and have redone the Fey Day article. Any additional feedback would be much appreciated.

Looking forward to contributing moving forward. TigonDJ (talk) 17:33, August 26, 2019 (UTC)


Hello! You have poked a mystery ;-). After your comment I have looked for cacodemon as a creature. I found many appearances of the spell, but not of a creature. That was what I expected, as the spell summons defined demons, but does not mention a specific cacodemon. On the other hand the Wikipedia article does mention a supposed creature called cacodaemon or cacoloth. Unfortunately that article does not give sources. Do you have any ideas where a cacodemon might have appeared? Daranios (talk) 11:50, September 6, 2019 (UTC)

Just going to jump in here!
"Cacodemon" literally means "evil spirit". It's a Greek derivative, as a "demon" in those times were spirits, both those that were good and those that were evil. The "caco" prefix just refers to it as being an evil spirit, to distinguish it from good spirits. The 1e "cacodemon" spell brought forth especially evil demons, such as nalfeshnees, mariliths and balors. That unsourced wikipedia article is wrong, I believe.
Cacodemons are actually specifically mentioned in 4e material (and there's one 3e appearance, but only refers to the Lord of Cacodaemons). The 4e Demonomicon had a lot of information and stated that cacodemons were essentially the spirits of particularly evil demons: "Cacodemons are not insubstantial as defined in the Monster Manual. Rather, they are incorporeal. Unlike insubstantial beings such as wraiths and ghosts, cacodemons do not physically manifest." ~ Possessed Priest (talk) 12:23, September 6, 2019 (UTC)
Interesting, so 4th edition has one. Now I found that the cacodemon description in the Players Handbook 1st edition (which I think is the origin of the spell) uses "cacodemon" not only for the spell but also for the summond demon, both in the "evil demon" sense from the Greek word origin and in the sense of "the types of demons able to be summoned by the spell". Do you happen to have a source for the "Lord of Cacodaemons"? If I have access to it I might revise the Wikipedia article. Thanks! Daranios (talk) 14:31, September 6, 2019 (UTC)
Yes, the 3e mention is in Fiendish Codex I, page 155, on the page that describes demon lords. The demon lord's name is Ahrimanes, Chief of the Cacodaemons, and occupies layer 452 of the Abyss. ~ Possessed Priest (talk) 14:37, September 6, 2019 (UTC)
Thanks again, I think this does not support the supposed 3rd edition cacodaemon from the Wikipedia article. I have removed the corresponding statement. Lhynard, sorry for talking over your head :-). Daranios (talk) 17:29, September 6, 2019 (UTC)
No need to apologize; this has been a fascinating read.
One confusing thing is that a daemon is a yugoloth, and a demon is not, so the subtle spelling might matter in these sorts of situations.
~ Lhynard (talk) 20:04, September 6, 2019 (UTC)

Dhergoloth Edit

Hello. I was wondering why there was no dhergoloth page? Was their just not enough for it or has no one bothered yet? Cause they do have some forgotten realms purpose in the Blood War and are somewhat important to the yugoloths it would seem. Just curious, and thanks.

Vegepygmy (talk) 02:42, September 13, 2019 (UTC)

It probably just means that no one got around to it. Feel free to add the page, if you do it carefully and be sure to mention the link to the Realms. Have fun! ~ Lhynard (talk) 02:48, September 13, 2019 (UTC)
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